I'm a big fan of ERG mode but I see the reason using it exclusively is not ideal. Not so much the mental aspect but that is a big part, more about being able to pedal smoothly enough to maintain your wattage and lower your VI.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I may not be the best to give feedback, but regardless of what anyone says against erg mode I am going to continue with using erg mode for all my indoor training. When I have a training goal for weekday I am grateful to set the program and go without having to look at my intensity level. I trained for many years with a dumb trainer and I had to watch the screen to stay within the prescribed intensity level without drifting down to an easier level before the interval was over.

Has erg mode had a negative impact on real cycling out on the road? For me it has been the opposite. I am pacing better on the road than I did before.

So for my N=1, and I will be honest that's all I care about, I have not observed any negative drawbacks. No matter how this thread or any like it I have now had enough positive experience that I will not change from this point forward. I love having a smart trainer and a decent training application where I can just let the legs do what they are supposed to do for the day and not have to constantly glare at a computer screen to make sure I am hitting the target.

I can totally understand many are able to hold the level inside without any aides so I won't preach that what I do is good for all. But I do think it is good for me.

Use erg inside, no-erg outside.

Erg gets me the optimal fitness, no-erg gets me pacing and vitamin D.

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<The Dew Abides>

I find Erg mode pushes me harder than non-erg. I have to hit the watts in the program....and occasionally start an interval thinking there is no way in hell I will be able to complete every interval. Not having the option to reduce effort (I keep the iPad far enough away that I can't reach it to adjust down) forces me to work.

btw....What does Erg stand/short for?

It's the sound you make when the trainer is set to 300 watts and your cadence accidentally drops.

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<The Dew Abides>

I have been using erg mode exclusively for several years with good results. I liked that I could nail my intervals only focusing on “don’t quit” aspect of it. As a result I did get stronger.

My issue with ERG mode is that i have difficulty pushing the prescribed watts a outside. It becomes a challenge of not only “don’t quit” issue but also “keep your power on-target” issue, which for me proved a little harder psychologically (last 3 IMs I ended up averaging 10-15 watts lower than what I believe I should have been able to hold given my workouts leading into them).

Now this could be because of ERG-only mode riding, or not enough outside riding (or combination of both).

I’m going back to non-ERG mode and will tell you what the results are in 6 months.

Exactly my experience. Always 5-10w off the pace I know I can hold indoors in the same position. You tend to disengage your brain when all you have to focus on is spinning the pedals at your preferred cadence. As soon as you introduce something extra such as rolling terrain, headwinds etc you start to use different muscles, you push cadences that you're not used to and you inevitably give up something. This is why this season I will do a lot more riding on resistance mode, do my intervals on zwift and ride outside more.

I don't think so. And I'm completely the opposite of the guys that can't hit their power numbers outside. When I'm outside it's way easier than trying to hold on during an erg interval.

yes

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Mike Alexander wrote:

btw....What does Erg stand/short for?

Ergo may refer to:

• A Latin word meaning "therefore" as in Cogito ergo sum.
• A Greek word έργο meaning "work", used as a prefix ergo-, for example, in ergonomics.
• Hating life on an indoor trainer at or above threshold.

ok, I added the last one myself. ;)

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Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava

I certainly agree that you need variable riding. I'm not saying use erg "all the time" as in not outdoor riding. I think keeping consistent power in an actual course is a skill that needs to be learned. I know I'm not where I need to be.

What I don't see is how trainer time in dumb mode is different than erg. For a 20 minute interval, the drift is gradual. It's not like hills or even a slight incline. it might be 10 watts over 20 minutes. Not even really like rolling hills. just enough to be annoying.

And I find zwift free riding to be almost too much change, depending on the course. I feel like I'm constantly flying between -5% and 8% grade unless I'm on a flat course. Probably do need to spend some time doing that just to get better.

But ultimately this post was geared more towards a coach giving a workout of 2 hour easy ride with 1.5 hours at XXX watts. Is it much different to use erg than letting the trainer settle and finding the sweet soot that might be a few watts high or low for your cadence.

Your target power on any given day should not be fized. IOW your FTP probably varies by at least +/-5% daily, often more. Erg mode doesn't consider this. The drawbacks to this approach are plentiful. It's just another way to disassociate with your body.

I realized you were talking about inside riding and that you ride outside as well. When you said this:
you don't need erg mode to do this.

Riding outside is going to be a better option than erg mode for numerous reasons to do this

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

So is that normal? I've been using a Kickr Snap for a year now in the offseason - basically weekdays after the time change.

When I'm doing intervals much more than 200 watts, once I drop below 95 RPMs its a real bitch to turn the cranks.

You and I are in agreement that outside riding is where you learn to ride consistent power on a varying course. I wasn't trying to say erg is good for that at all. I'm saying I don't see a real difference between erg and dumb trainer when it comes to that. I'm not gaining much in terms of lowering my VI by staying in dumb mode (by what I see, not claiming that to be true, hence the reason for thread). Only thing that might help is just letting zwift adjust resistance based off of virtual course grade, but I find that to be less than realistic (at least on my trainer).

I like my trainer for uninterrupted (stop lights, traffic, etc) time in the saddle as well as riding at 8 pm on a weeknight after the kid is in bed. And erg mode is just that much more helpful in hitting the exact power prescribed by my coach. But I also realize I have to get out and ride a varying course with actual turns and hills to learn to shift properly without spiking power all the time. I'm training for IMTX and most races/training I do are flat, but I did Austin with some punchy hills and my VI was pathetic. Excuse is that I was prepared for NOLA which was cancelled and picked up Austin last mintue, but it's a pretty bad excuse.

Is there any reason to believe that an exact and perfectly consistent figure is actually beneficial in training?
Coaches may give a target power, but how precise are their prescriptions. Your performance changes day to day. When I feel better than usual, I'll allow my power to drift up a few watts. If I feel bad, I'll allow myself sag slightly. My power invariably modulates around my target. Is there any reason why I should think this is counterproductive?
I'm inclined to believe the perception that training levels are critical to a watt or two are more due to how coaches and training plans from the likes of TR and Zwift define sessions than an actual strict physiological criticality. Am I wrong?

er·gom·e·ter
noun

1. 
   an apparatus that measures work or energy expended during a period of physical exercise.
   

yes. As someone who constantly drops cadence as I get distracted (nutrition/channel change/squirrels at the window?) it is normal. I usually just do a quick standing push to get back into cadence.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I'm no expert, but I'd tend to agree that hitting 248 instead of 250 is probably not going to cause any issues. I'm more concerned about drift (both trainer as it warms up and me zoning out) and making it easier on myself to maintain without finding that gear that happens to be working for the next 20 minutes. Does it hurt to have have the trainer ensure you are hitting your targets more closely?

And I know that I rarely drift to the point of doing more watts. It's almost always me ending up 5-7 watts lower. Over the course of 6 months of training, I'd rather do 5-7 watts more for every workout. Not that it would be a huge deal. And I definitely still bump the power up or down a few percent when I'm feeling good or bad. But on those bad days, it takes a conscious decision of turning down the power compared to slacking a little and convincing myself that it will all average out to the target power.

To paraphrase the guy that literally invented the zone protocol that your coach is most likely using... zones, levels and workout targets are (or should be) "descriptive, not prescriptive". Erg mode is prescriptive.

That was my assumption....and I don't use a coach ;)
Is "the guy" you reference Andrew Coggan?

No way I survive Sufferfest rides in Erg at 100%. I'll use it for long / steady state rides, but for intervals at .9+ IF it's back to the turbo.

Yes, Coggan.

I'm a huge fan of erg and I'm a FOP bike rider in my AG.