Are they faster than a standard Al rims, yes. Are they slower than other shallower deep rim wheelsets? Yes, slower than most.

But you are still ahead of the game compared to the low end Al wheels that ship with most bikes.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

What shallower deep rim wheelsets are faster?

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Are these 1080s clinchers or tubulars? I seem to remember most 1080s are tubulars. What tires and tubes are running?

808FC for starters and I'm willing to bet the 404FC is too

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Dont forget all of HED and Flo... basically every deep, blunt nose wheel.

Tubulars, and I am using Zipp tires, I dont remember the model right now

Pretty much all of the modern shapes from Hed, Zipp, Flo, Bontrager, etc are faster. And likely any other rims using the current wider profile.

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Actually they fall in between in terms of aerodynamics. http://www.zipp.com/...ro_edge_flyer_11.pdf

To the OP, if it's a handling thing, I'll trade you my dimpled non-fc 404 tubulars. But no, they are not slower wheels.

correct me if i am wrong but i believe i've seen some data about yaw in actual real time settings that seems to suggest that we rarely see anything over 5 degrees and most of the time this is closer to 2.5 degrees. I believe this goes for half and down distances in the US where events are held early in the morning. It would seem to me that you would need quite a wind to get to 15+. I get that out here (CO) but only when riding parallel to the foothills on gusty days.

ETA: i *think* it was some data run with using either Balazs Csoke or Matt White.

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They are waaay faster than stock wheels. Are they as fast as some of the modern firecrest/sct/flo shapes? No, but much much closer to those than to your alum trainers.

If you eventually want to do any upgrade, just go to a newer 60 or 90mm front. The back one is fine, since it drafts the seat tube and doesn't impact handling.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-tire-crr-matters.html


Tom has Mavic's yaw measurement plot in here (first place I could think of)


Heavily centered around low yaw #'s (the plot should sum up to ~200%, given it's symmetrical between -25 and 25)

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

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Really if you look at the data the 1080 is neck and neck with the firecrest 808 up to 10 degrees(and the old 808 isn't bad at all and a touch faster up to 5 degrees), firecrest shapes just have a much higher stall angle.

Definitely not worse than std. Al.

Great set - ride fast. Pro for training: you will be comfortable with any wind related movement come race day. Con for training: not bomb proof compared to std Al. but not bad either.

The 1080's are on par or even slightly faster than the Firecrest 808 according to the Bontrager white paper (page 16). Their paper of course shows the Aeolus wheel being very fast, but there would no reason to bias the Zipp vs. Zipp comparisons. If you don't have problems with handling or tubulars I don't see any reason to sell/replace.

http://media.bontrager.com/...aeolus_d3_wheels.pdf

Unless you are cycling moistly uphill and the 1080's are heavier than your old wheels (which I doubt they are) or you are just not used to the effect of side winds on a deep rim. I cant see them being slower.

how about doing back to back 10 mile tt's and see?

That's a good one but not the one that I saw. The one I'm referring too had something like 80-85% of time at yaw within 5/-5. I'll try and find it. But given this information it seems that high yaw values are marketing and not much else. The wider contact surface/rim/ trailing edge are good for crr but what else?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
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Hmmm. Almost makes me think then that if the data I'm digging for is evenly partly accurate that racing a non fc 808 would be smarter. Or at the very least not detracting (crr now withstanding).

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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I'll say this, I'm not selling ours anytime soon. ;)

What do you make of the crr differences between a wide rim and a skinny rim? Assuming, say a gp4000s tire.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

This seems relevant:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/...s-skinny-vs-fat.html

Don't know which distribution plot you're thinking of, sorry. Let us know if/when you find it! (Trek had one public at some point, I think?) I do agree with you that I optimize entirely around low yaw.

SS20 is really low CRR. :-) It really seems that the CRR race is just happening at the 23mm level--which is understandable from a comfort standpoint.

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

I agree. With these findings I'm moving my recommendation to a 23 GP 4000s on a rear wide rim and ss20 on the front. What i'm waffling on is whether skinny or wide rim up front is best taking into consideration handling issues as well on a per athlete basis.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I am going to give that a try, sometimes I feel like its mental and I end up doing better just because I think I will do better. So even at slower speeds I am still better off? from what I have read, the real benefit comes after 19+mph.

Nobody has shown publicly, data based evidence that rim width changes crr, on road or otherwise.

If you are using a 20mm front tire though and hope for low yaw aero improvements, I imagine you would want to pair it with a narrow rim.

James haycraft saw no aero improvement from the ss20 on a HED Jet

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