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Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter
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http://www.bikeradar.com/...e-power-meter-49418/

The patent describes a device that could calculate your estimated power output using bike speed, wind speed, road gradient and a number of other variables including hand position, velocity, heart rate, altitude and surface type.

Just because they filed doesn't mean it will happen, but as someone who owns the Apple Watch 2, this is interesting.

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Last edited by: BryanD: Mar 17, 17 12:52
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Junk marketing. Although there are probably people out there misguided enough to think its a good power meter. iBike has been making one for years, and its a second rate device. For the cost of it, one can have a real power meter. That Apple watch will probably cost several hundred dollars. Rip-off.
Last edited by: NealH: Mar 17, 17 12:56
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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I'm always amazed by so much negativity on this forum. Tell me, did you read anywhere in the article, about how Apple planned to compete against Quarq or Garmin or Stages?

It's just a cool feature added to a nice watch to use. Someone out there will find value in it. I have a Quarq and an Apple Watch.

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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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If you've got money to throw away, it's likely the perfect thing....or tool for you.

I don't mean to be negative, just that my opinion is that this feature is worthless.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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Would your opinion change if the algorithms accuracy was close to a real powermeter?

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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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No, because...

1. Without a strain gauge, it will not be as accurate across all points of sail (so to speak). Its just not going to happen.
2. I do not feel like punching in my weight to the nearest ounce, rolling resistance, and who knows what else before getting on the bike.
3. Power meters based on strain gauge technology are dropping in price. Today you can get one for probably not much more than that Apple watch.
4. If I want to see my power numbers on my wrist (which I really don't), then I would get one of the Garmin watches with Ant+. The low cost ones are not much money and will keep time every bit as accurately as the Apple watch. Probably do more stuff too.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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"Worthless" seems like a bit of a hyperbole. At its most basic level the concept is the same as the PowerPod, which DCR reviewed last year and found solidly accurate in most normal situations, and probably fits a number of use cases. Maybe not many of those are ST use cases, but for the slightly more casual...who is going to own an iThingy anyway...it would be far from "Worthless".
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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No Tom, it's worthless. What are you going to do, recalibrate it every time you get in the drops (changing hand positions)? It doesn't make sense. Some people probably have money to burn, and it's Ok if they want to waste it. Whatever floats their boat. But performance athletes, no, you will not find one on their arm being used for power measurement. Get back to me when the pros wear them.
Last edited by: NealH: Mar 17, 17 13:45
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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NealH wrote:
No Tom, it's worthless. What are you going to do, recalibrate it every time you get in the drops (changing hand positions)? It doesn't make sense. Some people probably have money to burn, and it's Ok if they want to waste it. Whatever floats their boat. But performance athletes, no, you will not find one on their arm being used for power measurement. Get back to me when the pros wear them.

You don't seem to understand the point of this. It's NOT MEANT FOR COMPETITION OR SERIOUS TRAINING. There we go.

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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting.

As with many (US) patent applications, there's a lot of prior art in there. I need to have a good look at this and I suspect Velocomp will!

Red is Faster
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone is happy to argue about the theory of measuring biometrics, few companies talk about the accuracy of their meters and I have yet to hear anyone talk about accuracy requirements.

It's back to front.

First we should be talking about how accurate we need power meters to be.

Then talk about the accuracy of specific meters.

Then talk about how they work.

You could well be right, and purely calculated power output could be enough for most, if not all, the benefits of power-based training and racing.

We'll never know until people start talking about and figuring out how accurate they actually need to be.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Tin pot wrote:
Everyone is happy to argue about the theory of measuring biometrics, few companies talk about the accuracy of their meters and I have yet to hear anyone talk about accuracy requirements.

It's back to front.

First we should be talking about how accurate we need power meters to be.

Then talk about the accuracy of specific meters.

Then talk about how they work.

You could well be right, and purely calculated power output could be enough for most, if not all, the benefits of power-based training and racing.

We'll never know until people start talking about and figuring out how accurate they actually need to be.

Who needs all this stuff. The old timers did pretty good without any of it.

Just go out and train, and race hard. Now, if this makes you have more fun, go for it. But, ....

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't loose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Given that people have been making devices that use those parameters to estimate power for a while I wonder whether they can get a patent broad enough to be at all useful to them (in other words to prevent other people from doing essentially the same thing). Though I would not be surprised if USPTO misses the prior art in their research...

-------------
Ed O'Malley
http://www.motivengines.com
@EdwardOMalley
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, nothing is needed for this hobby except determination and a bike.

And a helmet, and a wetsuit. But yeah.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Tin pot wrote:
Everyone is happy to argue about the theory of measuring biometrics, few companies talk about the accuracy of their meters and I have yet to hear anyone talk about accuracy requirements.

It's back to front.

First we should be talking about how accurate we need power meters to be.

Then talk about the accuracy of specific meters.

Then talk about how they work.

You could well be right, and purely calculated power output could be enough for most, if not all, the benefits of power-based training and racing.

We'll never know until people start talking about and figuring out how accurate they actually need to be.


Who needs all this stuff. The old timers did pretty good without any of it.

Just go out and train, and race hard. Now, if this makes you have more fun, go for it. But, ....



----
Aut Vincere Aut Mori || @adamwfurlong
Run So As To Win || Philly Bikesmith ||
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Though I would not be surprised if USPTO misses the prior art in their research...

Yep, wouldn't be surprising.
There are not too many companies who can take on Apple when it comes to patent infringements.
And if, they just need to run the clock until the other side runs out of moneys.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Apple is missing a few key items in their system. They can not account for air density which iBike does. They would need Relative Humidity and air temp to be able to do a complete calculation. As well they need to be able to accurately calculate the angle of climbs and descents, which would be near impossible without a fixed unit relative to the bike... I think this will be no better than what Strava can calculate after the fact, only it will estimate in real time. So if you have an Apple watch and iPhone and want an rough estimate of power then this might work for the cost of the app. We can argue until the cows come home pro and con the iBike, but it has been shown by many reviewers to work fine, this app will just not be the same nor will it infringe the patents of Velocomp. In my understanding of patent law you can apply for a new patent if you remove some aspects/ steps (in other words simplify) a current patent. Because this does not factor in air density it does not infringe according to my understanding.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you in that I think people will buy it, use it, and find it interesting. But those same people would likely be better served by a simple stopwatch. Or, for longer rides, something like Strava that provides time over segments.

I find power meters over rated in general; usually all I need is time over a segment. Yes, some days there is wind, but most days, time over a segment tells me all I need. But if your an indoor only rider, I see the value in a PM, but indoor you can also train quite well with heart rate. You don't get absolute measurement, but then again, go outside every now and then with your stopwatch, and you've got what you need. Maybe a more fair way to say this is that I found power meters over-rated given the cost/benefit ratio.

Strava does already have a similar power estimating feature. Sometimes it's pretty close, many times it +/- 50% off.
Last edited by: Paul Dunn: Mar 19, 17 11:53
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
I'm always amazed by so much negativity on this forum. Tell me, did you read anywhere in the article, about how Apple planned to compete against Quarq or Garmin or Stages?

It's just a cool feature added to a nice watch to use. Someone out there will find value in it. I have a Quarq and an Apple Watch.


It is not negativity, but frustration with all paid advertisements that look like legitimate articles and news...

Those adds, are misleading average inexperience people just to monetize on it, and crappy sites like bikeradar and many more cycling news outfits...

Most of those sites don't even touch the product, all they do is copy/paste marketing content from the manufactures, it's like watching Hells Kitchen and thinking you are watching cooking content, or watching Dr Phil and thinking you are getting better and psychology or watching Judge Judy and thinking you can easily be a lawyer or Judge.

If you have garmin device capable of running IQ apps, here is free "power meter\predictor" for you: https://apps.garmin.com/...3e-a6ac-a7f568e567c1

Carnival weight magician is more precise than this app...

You post this in apple watch forum and people will get ecstatic, posting here you are half trolling half joking, and mistaking the reaction as negativity :)
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
"Worthless" seems like a bit of a hyperbole. At its most basic level the concept is the same as the PowerPod, which DCR reviewed last year and found solidly accurate in most normal situations

They aren't comparable at all. The PowerPod measures airspeed.

This is much more comparable to the old Ciclosport HAC-4, which had an altimeter but no airspeed indicator.
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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How did you old timers do without the ability to post such dribble on the internet???
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Technical discussion aside, your thread title is the most click-baity thing I've seen here in ages.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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renorider wrote:
Technical discussion aside, your thread title is the most click-baity thing I've seen here in ages.

I copied the bike radar article but yeah.... it is

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Re: Apple Watch 3 may feature integrated power meter [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
I copied the bike radar article but yeah.... it is

:)

FAKE NEWS!!!

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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