My parents have a 12ft endless pool with (I believe) the lower-end motor - my complaint is that when you crank it up (probably 1:10-1:15/100m pace), the bubbles from your stroke don't have enough time to bubble up before getting sucked back into the pump and shot back at you. After 10-15 minutes, the pool is so cloudy with bubbles you can't see the bottom or the outlet at all and end up swimming into a wall. It's great for my parents though, since they aren't as fast. If I were to get my own system, I'd probably get the pool-edge design (FastLane), or I'd have to get the bigger model.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Have not tried Michael Phelps Swim Spa but looking at the web site I would NOT buy it. What you want is the largest possible propeller that will give a large area 'slow speed' current. A lot of swim spas provide resistance with very high velocity jets. This does the job but it results in very turbulent non uniform, unsatisfactory conditions. Michael Phelps Swim Spa is somewhere in the middle. Larger current but not close to Endless pool.

If you have not tried an endless pool, go try one. Call them and they will direct you to a pool owner for a tryout (the owners will gladly have you for a tryout - you register for tryouts, since if you end up buying one, they will get a 500$ check in the mail).

A 'swim spa' is an oxymoron. You should decide if you want to swim, which requires a somewhat low temperature, or go for hydrotherapy and relaxation which demands close to 100F temperature.

Bought an endless pool 4 years ago and I highly recommend it. Price is high, but you get an excellent swimming experience (we tried several swim spa models). We keep the temperature around 84F which is a good compromise for swimming and for the kids to play in for a long time. The current is a lot of fun for kids too.

Good luck

Francois in Montreal

We have a larger size (8x15) with the larger motor and have not seen the bubbles problem. If you have a good size backyard, I agree that a large pool with the fast lane is the way to go.

We have a small backyard and the advantage of the smaller pool is that it is easy to put the cover on, which keeps the pool clean and cheap to keep warm (a major advantage in Montreal).

Francois in Montreal

Thanks for the very helpful info. We are now back to leaning toward the Endless Pool (15 ft). Appreciate the input!

Don't hesitate if you have any questions (about the pool itself, installation process and options).

Francois

fbrissette@gmail.com

Curious if anyone has tried Swimex pools?

When we got our endless pool, the swimex was significantly more expensive and the standard size was too small for our taste. On paper it seems nice but I am not sure if having a wider current is really that useful since staying in the current center in an endless pool is easy enough. Something is also strange with the numbers. Not sure how the swimex can propel up to 6 times more water with essentially the same motor power and electrical load. One thing is sure, with the price of either the endless pool and swimex, you really should try it out before buying.

Francois in Montreal

Yes, tried them and they are amazing. If you are a strong swimmer the XP propulsion is the way to go. Phelps put his name to this product after working with it, swimming in it and helping to design one of the spas. If you are stronger than Phelps, you might not want a swim spa at all! I know a few people with this spa and they love love love it.
much more attractive than the endless and if you buy it, get it from a retail store so you have support and service when you need it.
I would never buy anything of this nature from a website. Support is essential!

How much noise does the Endless pool make? I am seriously considering getting one because getting to the pool is killing me with my work and family schedule. Although it would only be helpful if I can swim early morning or evening while the baby is sleeping.

Thanks,

Neal

How 'noisy' it is is difficult to describe. The noise is mostly due to the hydraulic unit and not to the turbine and water turbulence. You can have a conversation beside the hydraulic without shouting but the noise level gets annoying after a while. The hydraulic unit can be positioned anywhere as long as you have long enough hydraulic hoses. This means you can put it away somewhere where the noise will not disturb anyone. My pool is outside right against the house. !5 feet above is my bedroom. I can hear the pool from my bed, but faintly. No way it would wake me up. The pool outside makes significantly less noise 'inside' than the treadmill.

Francois in Montreal

Another counter current pool option to consider is the RiverPool, manufactured by Sentry Pools in Moline, IL. At Sentry Pools, we've been in business since 1971 and have engineered the RiverPool to feel like you're naturally swimming due to: the large 24" x 20" Flowhead, 18" Stainless Steel Propeller and efficient 7.5 HP Motor. The RiverPool system directs a deeper flow of water, which lifts the swimmer's body up and allows you to swim with correct body position.

Along with delivering an efficient current, the RiverPool provides perimeter bracing and the 14 gauge steel pool walls are powder coated to protect the structure. Being a Family owned company in the Mid West, our focus is on delivering a quality product at a great value.

For more info, please visit our counter current pool dedicated website at www.FluidSwim.com

Best regards,
Dan Hulse
Sentry Pool - FluidSwim

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Dan Hulse
FluidSwim.com

Ugh life would be awesome if I could just advertise on message boards all day! I'm not being facetious either.

Rolling papers included?

I have just recently tried the Michael Phelps swim spa, There is a vid on youtube, "ben gilliam ironman"
I own a gym and training facility so we are looking at this unit to see if it makes sense to put one in our facility. To be truthful, i want it for myself as much as anyone else;-) The machine worked great, it is NOT a jetted model, they don't get the job done for serious swimmers. This is a propeller system unique to this model. The current was wide and smooth. I had no trouble finding the "sweet spot". The power that this machine is capable of is tremendous. They showed me the setting that MP uses....wow, I can only say that I wish I could swim a bit more like him.

The MP model is substantial, big and tall!. I was impressed with the looks, finish and ease of use. Huge "wow" factor!
For super intense training, you'll want a second person to operate it while you swim. However, It was important (selfishly) to me to be able to go in alone, turn it on get in and rock without a bit of difficulty. That was no prob at all. My other concern was whether or not my athletes could get in and sustain smooth swimming and be comfortable. Ive seen other units make it just seem odd and not smooth. I brought 3 athletes and myself to try it, no prob. I was very pleased on every front.

From a coaching perspective,(im the coach) The workouts that this machine can produce are staggering and endless, imagine fartlek drills with this baby! Your coach/training partner can push you harder and harder! Fast sets, just one setting above last time! Forcing new levels of fitness, yet safe! Long sets for long course folks! Underwater camera to evaluate swim stroke!

In closing. as soon as I get more space from the landlord, this is my move. It passed the testing. It is an amazing training tool!

Best
Ben

I'm not a triathlete. My wife is the swimmer in the family, but she does it to stay in shape, not to compete. I am responding to this thread because this was one of the threads that helped me narrow down which used swim spas to shop for for my wife's use at home. We bought a 2007 Masterspas H2X used, for $15K back in November 2012. (not a Phelps model, but I have some video where I talk about the propeller that comes with a Phelps model) . My wife had tried a fiberglass endless pool and loved the thrust and the sweet spot for swimming. We avoided the steel-framed Endless pools with the vinyl pool liner for the thousands of hidden dollars in disassembling them and re-assembling them, and their penchant for leaking, and the fact they come un-insulated. But, that said, my wife thinks the Fastlane propulsion system the Endless pool makes, is the best solution. Both the fiberglass swim spas and the steel-framed vinyl-lined pools use Fastlane.

She also tried Swimex, which strangely, she had a difficult time finding a sweet speed and spot to swim in. Considering the engineering and construction of the Swimex, I would not have expected that. I'm a relentless tinkerer and once I saw how the H2X was constructed, I researched propeller technologies and created some modifications I promised to add once she outgrew the stock H2X prop. It only took her a year to outgrow it and to need more, and better thrust.

The H2X and Phelps models are simply an adoption of the Excerswim company they bought. Excerswim was a portable device, not meant for permanent installation. It used cheap swimming pool drain grates that impede good water flow--to cover the propeller, and a cheap fisherman's trolling propeller that was designed to not get caught in weeds, not to develop huge thrust. Not an optimum way to develop thrust for a stand-alone swim spa. If we could have afforded the $28-32K for a fiberglass swim spa Endless Pool, we would have gone for it.

Back to the H2X, once I bought and looked at the Michael Phelps propeller, and also, the Torqeedo Propeller that I purchased after doing more research, I decided not to use the Phelps one and use the Torqeedo. if you go to Torqeedos site, you'll see high-tech boat design that will blow your mind. The two propellers Master Spas use in the H2X and the Phelps are really decades-old trolling tech, and not optimum compared to what you can get today.

Here was my solution. If any of you own one and are also good with tools and fabrication, I'd love to share ideas.

The mods I did:
https://www.youtube.com/...b2Wa-qOHFD0f_axcIqyw

me talking about my thoughts on the original design and MasterSpas propeller choices:
https://www.youtube.com/...b2Wa-qOHFD0f_axcIqyw

my wife talking about how she uses it now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU3w64B_I0s

I suggest you go for the Michael Phelps swim spa as it is the proper choice for swimmers and swimming as well. You can also get more details on such spas and pools online.

Seeing as I started this post 4 years ago...I went with the Endless Pool and couldn't be happier. It's worked flawlessly for the past 4 years and we got a model that is 6 inches deeper than the standard along with the two mirrors. Fantastic training tool and has plenty of power for a stronger swimmer. Wish I used it more than I did but I am one that needs a coach standing on the deck telling me what to do to keep it interesting. My husband gets great use out of it in the warmer months.

Did you buy one of the steel framed ones or did you buy one of the fiberglass framed ones? In any case you know my opinion on it. I think you made the best choice for the propulsion system itself. The only thing to watch out for is the hydraulic pump apparently will eventually wear out and leak after several years and it's a few thousand bucks to get it up and running again. I just wish that Endless Pool made that exact propulsion system but just with a simple electric motor and a simple watertight spa seal it would work fine.

We got the steel frame and built the outer part with extra insulation ourselves. Saved a lot of money doing that, but it wasn't fun cutting all of those insulation boards : ). So far so good with the hydraulic pump. We keep it in the garage so it's not so noisy when we swim. Also have the pace clock built into the garage wall facing the pool. That's a must have item.

Does yours have the two long square tubes that intake the water to each side of the propulsion box?

Yes, it has a bench on either side where the water flows back to the propulsion system. With the water intake sight at the back and toward the bottom, there is a noticeable pull of your legs downward...particularly if you are really tall. Makes for an even better workout though, as you have to kick more than in a regular pool.

Wow I did not even think about the tall factor that's interesting. When I talked to an endless pool representative he mentioned that those tubes to help in preventing turbulence up around the propeller area the fiberglass ones do not have the square tubes but honestly my wife found that swim experience to still be very good

Off topic, and I swear I'm not getting anything from Vasa by mentioning it, but the $2k Vasa erg has been an amazingly effective device for me as an adult-onset swimmer. I posted a lot on it, and after using it a lot (like upwards of 7-9hrs per week at peak), I'm sure it's all I need for freestyle swim training, and has completely solved my problem of the killer logistics of getting to the pool. I've found it truly is the real deal - you get stronger on it, you swim faster. For me, it's exactly as effective timewise as pool time - if I train an hour on a Vasa, it's every bit as effective (possibly moreso) than an hour in the pool, minus the travel time and the crappy circle swims.

The additional upsides - as quiet as a bike trainer, nothing to plug in at all, built rock solidly, and requires NO special upkeep/maintenance. I think it's awesome - I'm actually pretty surprised that people are so willing to drop $2k on race wheels but don't rush out to buy these things, yet still complain about their swim volume/training limitations.

Amazingly, it takes even less prep to train on this thing than running. Soooo convenient, and you can get in really useful maintenance short 15-20min sessions squeezed in at any point during your day with no fuss or muss if you're really cramped on time.

I still use mine pretty religiously, and I still think it's the best thing I ever purchased in triathlon, given that swimming is my limiter.

If I could find a used Vasa for a fair price in Northern Calif, I might give it a try.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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