Fishies,

Terribly slow swimmer here - 50yr old female - swimming for about 2 1/2 years mostly self taught. Spent the last 16months in Masters swim 3x/wk and did not improve much at all. So have officially ditched that out of major frustration and have started working with a coach 1x/week on technique only. Have major technique flaws (no surprise there) but at least now I have something to focus on for improvement.

Reading the threads here on ST - it is pretty clear that swimming well is "100% fitness & 100% technique" (forget who said that). The question I have is as I try to relearn how to swim, how much time should I devote to technique over endurance?

For now, as I try to master technique (rotation, timing of breath finish stroke, kick, timing of kick), should I just do 25s and focus on one aspect of swim at a time to ingrain good habits?

Right now, when I swim longer than 50, I find myself right back where I started and I really want to get away from all the bad habits that have become ingrained over the past 16months of just swimming lots with bad form but am worried about losing fitness.

So my Q - if my long term goal is to get this swimming thing down, should I just swim 25s for the next few months? When should I start doing longer swims? I do plan to get in the water 4-5x/week for 30-60min a session. Long term goal - Olympic/half distance - but will probably stick to sprints this summer - maybe one Olympic if I can get some confidence in my swimming.

I am a FOP athlete in my age group at local sprints - thanks to big improvements on the run (am a cyclist) - but I come out of the water in a panic and in almost last place and then play catchup the rest of the race so I really want to get this swimming thing down!

Thanks for your help fishies!

What can you do ....lets 5x 100 in? What would be your avg time per hundred?

You should not devote time to "form over fitness". You shall work hard and while working hard focusing on perfect technique. It is easier to hold a good and sound technique if you are swim fit. You can do some more technique-related stuff that still works your swim fitness though like 3x500 pull descend with a snorkel and focusing on a great catch, right into 10x50 on whatever start intervall and swim fast with a strong pull AND strong kick, making sure that your last 2-3 intervals are the fastest. If this is not possible, well you lack the fitness to hold technique and then you need fitness, not necessarily more technique (even though better technique makes you faster at the same RPE, but so does fitness).

Asking swimmers how to learn to swim is like asking Michael Jordan how to play basketball. They just don't remember that phase anymore. Fishes were generally teen and childhood swimmers.

Yeah. And you know why fishes can't really remember 'learning' how to swim? It's because it wasn't a fast, easy process. They were in the water 4-10 times a week swimming 2k-6k per session for years straight. Not a single fish became a fish in their first, or second, or third year in the pool (hell, even MJ was cut from the basketball team his freshman year). Their technique wasn't fixed quickly. Most of the time, it wasn't fixed directly by a coach either. Yes, they were given drills and occasional feedback if there was any major issues. But the really kicker was that they were given an expectation that they were to be in the water day in, day out, for months, and then years at a time. And, they were given a culture that the pace clock was more important than the coach. During that time in the water, the athlete made hundreds of tiny changes to their stroke. And when a minute change was made and deemed to be successful, the athlete practiced it for thousands upon thousands of yards, all the while making other tiny changes to their stroke. Learning to swim and swim fast is a dynamic and endless process not achieved quickly. Swimmers are ever tinkering with their stroke, body position, entry, recovery, etc. Each and every time in the water is a learning experience.

Almost every adult I've met (including, but not limited to, triathletes) is not willing to be in the pool for 2 hours a day by 6 days a week. The only reason that childhood swimmers are any better than adult-onset swimmers is that they put in a lot of time and a lot of yards. And they never stop working on their stroke. They focus on their technique WHILE they are swimming. Technique and fitness are inseparable- both improve with work. (Some people just have different starting places.) The athlete's body and the clock gives them the feedback they desire. Sure, it's easier for the fishes. Now. It wasn't always the case. They sucked big time. Don't discredit the amount of work and the amount of tinkering that they have done over countless years and yards in the water. Becoming a fish isn't/ wasn't easy for anyone.

Don't stress the time/pace right now. I wouldn't be doing 25s on :50. Do them with :20 rest interval or something and hold your best pace. Try to get all the same time. There is no magic window on when to progress to longer sets. Everyone will get it at different times. Your coach and you will have to determine that one by testing longer sets. Like was mentioned, starting point is different for everyone. I would not progress up until you have the technique though. You will know this by "testing" yourself with the longer sets.


As for dry land, stretch cords are amazing. Core work will help tremendously as well. As for weights, lots of different approaches to it. In the beginning just about all of them will help. Injury prevention when dry land training though!

I personally could not lift and swim. It would drop me 5 sec per hundred...............Jason and I had a conversation a while ago on how slow one could swim and keep good technique. Its one of the problems with drills. With decent technique it is hard to swim real slow......kinda like practicing running technique on the track while running a 12 min pace.
My advice. Lots of hard, fast as you can swimming of 50's and 100's. Amount of rest is not important. You cannot practice good form at a 2:10 pace. If it was good form you would go faster...........w/u 10 x 50 5x100 5x100 10 x 50 Thats a quick 2000 without the w/u. ....When you can hold the same speed jump to 200. ....my 2 cents

The question I have is as I try to relearn how to swim, how much time should I devote to technique over endurance?

For now, as I try to master technique (rotation, timing of breath finish stroke, kick, timing of kick), should I just do 25s and focus on one aspect of swim at a time to ingrain good habits?

should I just swim 25s for the next few months? When should I start doing longer swims?

Their technique wasn't fixed quickly. Most of the time, it wasn't fixed directly by a coach either. Yes, they were given drills and occasional feedback if there was any major issues.

During that time in the water, the athlete made hundreds of tiny changes to their stroke. And when a minute change was made and deemed to be successful, the athlete practiced it for thousands upon thousands of yards, all the while making other tiny changes to their stroke. Learning to swim and swim fast is a dynamic and endless process not achieved quickly. Swimmers are ever tinkering with their stroke, body position, entry, recovery, etc. Each and every time in the water is a learning experience.

Thanks - lots of good stuff.

It's just such a catch22 - my all out pace is slow due to bad form - so how do I fix it to get faster? Do I try to fix it first? For adult onset swimmers - it really is such a chicken or the egg problem. I am gonna just keep swimming - but I think maybe 10x25, 5x50, repeat and then step up to set you recommended.

Asking swimmers how to learn to swim is like asking Michael Jordan how to play basketball. They just don't remember that phase anymore. Fishes were generally teen and childhood swimmers.

Yeah. And you know why fishes can't really remember 'learning' how to swim? It's because it wasn't a fast, easy process. They were in the water 4-10 times a week swimming 2k-6k per session for years straight. Not a single fish became a fish in their first, or second, or third year in the pool (hell, even MJ was cut from the basketball team his freshman year). Their technique wasn't fixed quickly. Most of the time, it wasn't fixed directly by a coach either. Yes, they were given drills and occasional feedback if there was any major issues. But the really kicker was that they were given an expectation that they were to be in the water day in, day out, for months, and then years at a time. And, they were given a culture that the pace clock was more important than the coach. During that time in the water, the athlete made hundreds of tiny changes to their stroke. And when a minute change was made and deemed to be successful, the athlete practiced it for thousands upon thousands of yards, all the while making other tiny changes to their stroke. Learning to swim and swim fast is a dynamic and endless process not achieved quickly. Swimmers are ever tinkering with their stroke, body position, entry, recovery, etc. Each and every time in the water is a learning experience.

Almost every adult I've met (including, but not limited to, triathletes) is not willing to be in the pool for 2 hours a day by 6 days a week. The only reason that childhood swimmers are any better than adult-onset swimmers is that they put in a lot of time and a lot of yards. And they never stop working on their stroke. They focus on their technique WHILE they are swimming. Technique and fitness are inseparable- both improve with work. (Some people just have different starting places.) The athlete's body and the clock gives them the feedback they desire. Sure, it's easier for the fishes. Now. It wasn't always the case. They sucked big time. Don't discredit the amount of work and the amount of tinkering that they have done over countless years and yards in the water. Becoming a fish isn't/ wasn't easy for anyone.

Not sure if this has been covered in your training over the last few years. The stretch cords work wonders, 3x/week for 10-15 minutes. 80% of your swim improvements can come from your underwater pull. I'm not sure how much all the extra kick work will gain you. This was a great read. You can also find videos on Youtube on how to do the stretch cord dry land work.

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