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A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists
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So we have this public bridge that links a large equestrian district to some horse trails in a public park (Griffiths Park in LA). This is a suspension bridge over the LA river where the cars are a prohibited. There is another bridge about a mile down the road which is usually busy with cars getting on/off the freeway, getting into the park, etc etc. The bridge by the equestrian center has a soft sand/bark type of the bottom surface. Roadies really cannot ride it but someone on a mountain/cross type of a bike could use it to get into the park without having to dodge cars. I'd guesstimate that the bike traffic on that bridge is pretty low on average.

A few months ago some local loudmouth equestrian asked the local city council to ban the cyclists from the bridge. Her reasoning was that the bridge was built specifically for the horse riders to use and the animals can be spooked by the bikes. The council vacillated for a while, but eventually caved in and banned all two-wheel traffic from the bridge.

Looking at it, I am kind of feeling that the city council may have overstepped their authority since this was a publicly funded construction, sitting on a public land and so on. Now here is a local cyclist who's purposely trying to get a citation to have this case heard before the local court (details here). Do you think that he can succeed in his challenge? Is this the right strategy?

Your thoughts, ST?

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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horses suck. get off your bike and spook them while running!
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [pknight] [ In reply to ]
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pknight wrote:
horses suck. get off your bike and spook them while running!

Horses are delicious. Horse people suck.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [pknight] [ In reply to ]
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pknight wrote:
horses suck. get off your bike and spook them while running!

Actually, you're more likely to spook them on your bike. In my experience, horses generally find bikes terrifying unless they've been acclimated to them. I can see both sides of this issue. Non-horse people don't generally understand just how much of an issue they're creating by biking near horses.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [darkwave] [ In reply to ]
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I hate horses. I live in a somewhat rural area with shared bike paths where people take their horses, i feel uncomfortable having to go past them because they are so flapping massive. They always have that look in their eye like they're a sneeze away from being spooked and crushing you.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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What most people don't realize about horsey people and their right of way is that there are laws on the books that go way way back allowing them that right of way. In some locales, if horsey people have been using a trail, a path , a road, or even a bridge people or vehicle free for a a year, they are given full access and rights of that thoroughfare.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [darkwave] [ In reply to ]
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darkwave wrote:
pknight wrote:
horses suck. get off your bike and spook them while running!


Actually, you're more likely to spook them on your bike. In my experience, horses generally find bikes terrifying unless they've been acclimated to them. I can see both sides of this issue. Non-horse people don't generally understand just how much of an issue they're creating by biking near horses.

This. Also, while I'm sure most cyclists would slow down and proceed carefully, you know there's going to be one tool who spoils it for everyone else by bombing across at a high rate of speed.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Let the horse people have their trails. I live at the base of palos verdes and this is an issue here in a few locations as well, people generally live in harmony but it comes down to respect.

If people can't be adults and responsibly share trails - on which bikes are the lowest priority after hikers and horses- then the only answer is restrictions And seeing how some people bike trails I can see their point. A lot of us do ride like we own the trails. (The Royal "us")

Funny, I could call the cyclist a "loudmouth" too. All depends on perspective I guess

I don't really have an issue with no riding on that trail. I do think the ban on walking with a bike goes too far though.
Last edited by: ChrisM: May 29, 16 6:40
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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A guy I occasionally work out with is a polo player. He wanted to win some championship polo match so he brought in some ringers to join his team. This is apparently acceptable in this league and not all that uncommon. He signed these two guys to play for $20k, per month, plus housing and expenses for a year.

So generally speaking I would not recommend getting into a legal fight with someone who rides horses. You are probably going into a gun fight unarmed.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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On the Washington & Old Dominion Trail in No. Virginia, we have a multi-purpose trail (Rails-to-Trails conversion) where cyclists, horses, runners, walkers, inline skaters, and even rollerskiers all co-exist. The rule is simple - all traffic always yields to horses; however, most cyclist either (1) ignore the rule or (2) are ignorant about said rule.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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My house abutts some horse pasture. Horses are fine but holy crap the horse owner is INSANE. Possibly craziest person I have ever met. Don't mess with horse people. It's like messing with a guy riding a 250k bike... Prolly not gonna end well.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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TriguyBlue wrote:
i feel uncomfortable having to go past them because they are so flapping massive. They always have that look in their eye like they're a sneeze away from being spooked and crushing you.

FWIW, they don't want to spook INTO you - if they're spooking at you, then they're trying to get away from you :).

As a general rule, horses are NOT looking to harm other horses or people - their fight or flight mechanism is skewed very strongly towards flight. The risk to people comes from the fact that when horses get scared and panicky, sometimes they lose awareness of their surroundings, and can inadvertently hurt someone while trying to get away.

Dunno if that gives you any comfort. On the other hand, it's definitely not a bad thing that you are careful when near them
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at it, I am kind of feeling that the city council may have overstepped their authority since this was a publicly funded construction, sitting on a public land and so on. Now here is a local cyclist who's purposely trying to get a citation to have this case heard before the local court (details here). Do you think that he can succeed in his challenge? Is this the right strategy?
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If Duffy's thread several months ago is any indication you've got a large, vocal cycling community up in the LA area, with some attorney's too. It might be worth approaching it like the loudmouth equestrian and take it to the city council. I agree cyclist are not well liked and mountain bikers even less so but it was built with public funds etc so....


Train safe & smart
Bob

Last edited by: Longboarder: May 29, 16 12:07
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [Longboarder] [ In reply to ]
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No comment on what's legal here - but the set up of this crossing sounds like an accident waiting to happen. From what I can see posted online, the crossing being debated is a bridge. And fairly narrow - not easy to tell in photos. Horses can be real dumbasses and even well trained animals will spook at seemingly nothing. An out of control horse on a bridge is a bad idea.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Holy Cow, that is one narrow bridge!

For anyone that has been up close and personal with a horse recently, you know that it leaves very little room for a 1,000-1,500 pound animal and a bike to coexist.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Holy Cow, that is one narrow bridge!

For anyone that has been up close and personal with a horse recently, you know that it leaves very little room for a 1,000-1,500 pound animal and a bike to coexist.
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I didn't see the bridge in my first post, I agree it's narrow. Not sure what the answer is but maybe like a one way country bridge bikes give way to horse's. I guess the city council thinks bikers wouldn't obey this rule but to ban bikes is wrong too since its public land and built with taxpayer $$$$.


Train safe & smart
Bob

Last edited by: Longboarder: May 29, 16 13:33
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Horse money vs bike money...The horsey people will trample you and bike buddies in this battle!
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [Longboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Just because taxpayer money is used - and public land - does not mean utilization rights are extended to every form of transportation or recreation. For example - motorized vehicles are banned on plenty of public properties. Public pools are built that restrict what types of activities are allowed. No one is being denied access to the bridge. Theyre just being restricted in terms of accessing it with a bike. Not saying building that bridge with public funds was a good (or bad) idea but not sure anyone's rights are being trampled here. (unless they spook some dipshit horse)
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [Longboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Longboarder wrote:
Holy Cow, that is one narrow bridge!

For anyone that has been up close and personal with a horse recently, you know that it leaves very little room for a 1,000-1,500 pound animal and a bike to coexist.
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I didn't see the bridge in my first post, I agree it's narrow. Not sure what the answer is but maybe like a one way country bridge bikes give way to horse's. I guess the city council thinks bikers wouldn't obey this rule but to ban bikes is wrong too since its public land and built with taxpayer $$$$.


Not really. There are a lot of things built with public funds that ban bikes or skateboards or..... Not really sure where people are getting the idea that they have some constitutional right to ride their bike everywhere

Eta IOW what sneaker said above!
Last edited by: ChrisM: May 29, 16 14:22
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Not replying directly to you just thread in general.

This is all sort of ironic in my eyes. Bike people scared to cross with cars because it could lead to danger. So they get mad at horse people how just want to cross a bridge safely with their animals.

Horses really do get spooked easily and seeing that bridge, that could lead to a lot of danger for the cyclist, horses, and horse riders if something happened. Why not just establish a right of way protocol. No horses and two wheel traffic on the bridge together? Is having to stop for a few minutes at most ruining your ride? I'd think not but I'm also not that type A

And the insinuations about people that own horses here is hilarious. Funny how the 1% taints the view for the masses :) makes one wonder what people think about all those douchey cyclist flipping off drivers and ignoring traffic laws.
Last edited by: zachboring: May 29, 16 18:06
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [zachboring] [ In reply to ]
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I actually agree that riding a bike on that bridge with the horses present is a bad idea. Totally onboard with that.
What I am not cool with is the fact that the city council allowed the outright ban on bikes. That seems to be excessive.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Don't disagree. Hence my thought of the right of way protocol. I can't imagine that bridge is constantly clogged with horses crossing all day

Or some just common decency and understanding between the different parties. But that's a lot to ask of people
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [zachboring] [ In reply to ]
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zachboring wrote:
Don't disagree. Hence my thought of the right of way protocol. I can't imagine that bridge is constantly clogged with horses crossing all day

Or some just common decency and understanding between the different parties. But that's a lot to ask of people

Well that is the thing, they passed an ordinance in that said that all bikes must be walked or carried across the bridge in December. But then a few weeks later after the City Council suddenly decided that was not good enough and then voted to ban even walking or carrying a bike. What is the difference between walking a bike and pushing a stroller?

Of course horse riders say things like this:

"Even the most well-trained [horse] can easily spook over things that seem, to us, innocuous: a stray plastic bag blowing in the breeze, the sound of a car horn," wrote Deborah Valenta, in a Jan. 22 email to council members.


If that is true, how the hell are people allowed to ride horses in public, they seem incredibly dangerous. If a stray plastic bag could be a danger, horses should not be allowed near people. Remember this is for the most well trained horses. Of course this is not true, a well trained horse is not going to be freaked out by a bike or a car horn. If not horses would not have been used for war for centuries or be able to be used by the police in cities now.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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Look. Not going to get into politics and why the city went a step further. Probably a squeaky wheel situation with some people who wanted to make some campaign contributions. Who knows. But that to me doesn't discount the concerns of both parties. If there is a way to have all be happy, that course of action should be explored. But that isn't always what happens in reality as well all know.

But that comment about spooking is real. And it's very individualized to the animals. Just like some people are scared of people coming at them from behind or People getting really close in a car while on the bike.

It isn't like its a major issue where horses just freak out when they see a shadow they don't like. And geberally you can calm them down. But the combo of the narrow bridge with little room for a bike to pass and I'm sure some people trying to do just that, there wouldn't be a lot of room to calm the animal down. Typically when a horse spooks it will back up or move laterally and reasses.

And let me run by you with a car horn and we will see if I can scare you. Horses do have some blind spots and that's typically where most issues arise ime.

This is just like dogs and other animals. Is it possible to train them to the best of your ability and still have stuff like this happen, you betcha.
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Re: A conflict between the equestrians and the cyclists [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Alex -- Wouldn't asking cyclists to walk their bikes across the bridge to avoid spooking any horses be an okay compromise?

Sharon McN
@IronCharo
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