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Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I just love how all the claims on ASEA's site are vague enough that you can turn them pretty much the way you want if
someone says 'yeah right, that's BS'...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
I just love how all the claims on ASEA's site are vague enough that you can turn them pretty much the way you want if
someone says 'yeah right, that's BS'...

"Linear modeling found that ASEA supplementation caused a significant shift in 43 metabolites pre-Ex, especially free fatty acids, suggesting an enhanced fat oxidation and amino acid sparing, with an increase in ascorbic acid, during Ex."

This is secret researcher code for "this stuff didn't do anything, so we went fishing for some stuff and came up with these interesting findings, the significance of which are completely unknown."
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
When I read the sentence you just posted, it reminds me of the 'automatic paper generator' created at MIT (using something called
context-free grammars, FTR)...Actually...it's computer science stuff, but let's run it here:

http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/...wman.DonkeyKong.html
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I added slowman as a co-author because he provided the infrastructure to 'write' our paper. And DonkeyKong, as a reference to anyone who
wants to believe in the ASEA claims.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
When I read the sentence you just posted, it reminds me of the 'automatic paper generator' created at MIT (using something called
context-free grammars, FTR)...Actually...it's computer science stuff, but let's run it here:

http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/...wman.DonkeyKong.html


The same paper generator actually produced an article that got accepted at a conference. So that reinforces my point from a couple pages ago about how crap gets accepted for presentation at conferences too.

Rooter: A Methodology for the Typical Unification of Access Points and Redundancy

Last edited by: DrPete: Sep 4, 12 15:00
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
I added slowman as a co-author because he provided the infrastructure to 'write' our paper. And DonkeyKong, as a reference to anyone who
wants to believe in the ASEA claims.

I LIKE IT!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I was still in a computer science dept. when that happened. It was very funny and didn't make the conference very popular...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
I can only imagine. Had to be mortifying for the reviewers and the conference in general.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [LastManWalking] [ In reply to ]
 
LastManWalking wrote:
Thanks, this is the first time that I get to of my fav sites, Science based medicine and Slowtitch, combined.

hopefully you tie that all together by listening to the skeptics guide to the universe podcast while you train. its what all us nerdy skeptic triathletes do.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
bwwahahaahhahaahahahahahah....oh that was good!

but its so sciency sounding, it must be true!

it would be so easy to come up with some crap and make a ton of money off of it. even after being slapped with a few million dollar fine from the ftc its still worth it. damn morals preventing me from ripping people off! i could be rich!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
this test was for biomarkers of inflamation and oxidative stress, you need to see the vo2 specifics testing, this was a test by 1 third party that was paid for by reoxcyn. its 1 of hundreds of tests reoxcyn paid for, and varying results.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
this test was for biomarkers of inflamation and oxidative stress, you need to see the vo2 specifics testing, this was a test by 1 third party that was paid for by reoxcyn. its 1 of hundreds of tests reoxcyn paid for, and varying results.

so youre saying the results cant be reliably duplicated? fail.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact 97% were quite conclusive. I can msg Tue original documentation if needed. There were many of these tests done by third party. Most of them had great results and then % error leaves room for people who didn't follow the instructions, or mixed up the control group, etc. It ctually happened to Asea a couple times. But 97% consistent anyway
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact 97% were quite conclusive. I can msg Tue original documentation if needed. There were many of these tests done by third party. Most of them had great results and then % error leaves room for people who didn't follow the instructions, or mixed up the control group, etc. It ctually happened to Asea a couple times. But 97% consistent anyway



so lets see the published studies

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
actually, legaly speaking asea has made no claims whatsoever as to the effects of asea except what the FDA allows them to say based on evidence provided to them regaurding antioxidants and how signaling between cells is improved. all the claims of cures, remissions, and such are made by people who use it. the proof is in the pudding, they say 20% of people are as much effected by the placebo effect. well 3 out of 5 people that use asea on a trial basis admit to its positive effects and would recommend it. hence MLM. id say that around 60%. people here say personal testamonies dont count because there is no scientific evidence. you show me a clinical test of 5 hour energy that is more specific then the asea test results and you have a case. and as far as (it just sounds sciency to rip people off) well maybe if you knew a thing or two you would understand half the stuff theyre talking about, and realize "hey these words actually mean somthing...huh". bottom line, no matter what your phd is in or how smart you are, you have no more right to say "it cant work" or "it doesnt work" than the people who say it does work. you show me your findings in your experament to prove asea doesnt have positive effects on the body. show me your evidence. cuz so far asea is winning in the prove it game. your a con for saying it doesnt work. why should anyone believe you. you have no proof.

The burden of evidence lies with the people trying to sell the snake oil to the rest of us. I'm sure that such a fantastic product has tons of evidence to support its use. You know, like the study presented at some meeting that didn't get published that shows it doesn't do anything.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.

Benefit of the doubt you forgot.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Doubletime] [ In reply to ]
 
Doubletime wrote:
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

I see what, there, you did!

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Doubletime] [ In reply to ]
 
Doubletime wrote:
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

obviously the table salt in the tapwater interacts with the force to make you stronger.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
he did it well

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.

There are no published studies. Cut the bullshit. There are some studies slightly connected, that you can find on pubmed, talking about redox signaling
for cancer research, inflammation etc. but they have nothing to do with ASEA. The only from Samuelson G. on pubmed are in sweden and are clinical
nutrition research...

For the same price as a bottle of ASEA I can get a double espresso, which will actually boost my performance. And will taste much better. Especially if
I drink it at a cafe terrace somewhere in the south of France, or Italy.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
dammit i wanted to see what he was going to post! i was guessing some internal study with 5 or 6 participants and no controls.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
See my other post linking the article from the science-based medicine blog. It discusses precisely that...lack of control groups,
from internal studies, lack of protocols, etc...as non scientific as can be. But I'm sure some folks are making money doing this...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
See my other post linking the article from the science-based medicine blog. It discusses precisely that...lack of control groups,
from internal studies, lack of protocols, etc...as non scientific as can be. But I'm sure some folks are making money doing this...

ive read the sbm blog since its inception ;) neurologica is great too.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 

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