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4 years of leg soreness
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For the past 4 years, going on 5 now, I have had constant leg/muscle soreness. This is all in my quads, both legs, the entire muscle belly. No joint pain, no obvious inflammation, no swelling. When riding even at low intensity levels they are screaming at me, and worse when working at high levels. When I am done my workout they go right back to my baseline level of about 5/10. No numbness, no tingling, no point tenderness, but the entire muscle.

I am a Physical Therapist. I have done extensive stretching, massage, foam rollers, heat, tens/muscle stim unit, prolonged advil, protein drinks, high sugar drinks, and changing my diet. I have taken a week off, no change, a month off no change. Blood work shows nothing wrong.

The end result of a hard workout, or easy workout is the same. They always are sore. 4 advil will reduce the soreness, but does not eliminate it. My performance has not dropped, I am getting stronger/better. No body fatigue, no illness. I feel great on the bike except my legs. I have changed my bike position over the past couple of years, and have absolutely no pain or discomfort when riding other than my quads. Changing my position has had no effect on my legs.

I am at a loss of what to try next. A lot of very experienced people out there. Hoping someone has some suggestions on what I can try.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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some would say the answer is meditation, to help dislodge the feedback loop -- this book explores that from a skeptic's point of view
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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sorta like, there is no spoon?
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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I have had something different, but also difficult to identify: persistent hamstring soreness running. I thought my hamstrings were too tight. Treated symptoms, went to see physios, etc, didn't help.

For me the key was to consult an biomechanics expert who did in-depth of range of motion tests. It turned out that my rectus femoris was the culprit, causing an anterior pelvic tilt, hence pulling on the hamstrings and also leading to TFL issues.

I struggled to find a good biomechanics expert, but was very relieved once I had consulted him.

Good luck finding out what causes the issues!

Best
Nicolas

---
power2max
http://www.power2max.com/northamerica
official power meter of Movistar Team
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Have you been getting massage?
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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coates_hbk wrote:
sorta like, there is no spoon?

This article explains how chronic pain can persist and grow worse even if there's no lasting physical damage. I'm no expert but think there's something to it . . .
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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I had a friend who had constant muscle soreness - not for 4 years as you describe, but it turned out the person wasn't getting enough fat in their diet.
Take a look at your diet and if you're really low fat, try some healthy ones like olive oil, nuts, avocados... it cleared up my friend's issue pretty well.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Any other signs of Fibromyalgia? Google it and look up the symptoms..
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Are you on any medication that has muscle soreness as a side effect? I was for a while, and I stopped the med, after consulting with my dr, and the soreness went away.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [cstine] [ In reply to ]
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I'd stop the Advil, over the medium and long term, it might make it worse and it reduces some natural adaptation to muscle damage and inflammation.

Interesting that even time off and easy days don't make it go away. Sounds more neurological them, not muscular. Especially if it's just pain and not actually performance limiting. My soreness usually correlates with some inability to generate power. The muscle fibers are simply unavailable to recruit.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the replies. This has been on ongoing battle.
Some thoughts on replies so far - meditation? definitely a skeptic, but will research it,
I am constantly stretching, so don't think it is that, but do have areas that seem to always be tight no matter what I do, including my quads.
I would spend 30 minutes on each leg, massaging - no changes in symptoms.
Not doing anything to lose weight, and overall eat quite healthy. I was a sugar junkie, and did cut WAY back around the same time as my legs, but now it has been so long, the time frame gets fuzzy.
Don't take any medication regularly. Have tried steady dose of advil in the past, but it had no effect, and do not currently take any.
Fibromyalgia- hmm, will have to research this as well.
There was not a known initial issue- Just my legs never seeming to recover.

Looked up FIbromyalgia - I don't have any of those other symptoms
The book is on it's way to my library
Last edited by: biker2035: Mar 4, 15 15:02
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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use Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM...3 per day before bed...takes about 3 months to kick in. i had the same issue about 7 years ago. I couldn't run 2 days in a row no matter what I did. no issues now. i've run 91 times out of the last 92 days as part of the 100 day challenge.


i also take 10mg of melatonin 1-hour before bed as well for cheap, deep sleep insurance.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Try dry needling the quads.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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biker2035 wrote:
I am constantly stretching, so don't think it is that, but do have areas that seem to always be tight no matter what I do, including my quads.

I would try stopping "constantly stretching". over the years I've had several issues that in hindsight were made worse by stretching.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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biker2035 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. This has been on ongoing battle.
Some thoughts on replies so far - meditation? definitely a skeptic, but will research it,
I am constantly stretching, so don't think it is that, but do have areas that seem to always be tight no matter what I do, including my quads.
I would spend 30 minutes on each leg, massaging - no changes in symptoms.
Not doing anything to lose weight, and overall eat quite healthy. I was a sugar junkie, and did cut WAY back around the same time as my legs, but now it has been so long, the time frame gets fuzzy.
Don't take any medication regularly. Have tried steady dose of advil in the past, but it had no effect, and do not currently take any.
Fibromyalgia- hmm, will have to research this as well.
There was not a known initial issue- Just my legs never seeming to recover.

Looked up FIbromyalgia - I don't have any of those other symptoms
The book is on it's way to my library

Just a weird ass guess but, if your leg soreness started around the same time as you cut WAY back on sugar, perhaps you need more sugar and carbs in general??? If you are training a lot, you need a fair amount of carbs and simple sugars are a quick and easy way to get them:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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The sugar I cut out was bags of candy. Jelly beans, gummi worms, orange slices, the list goes on and on. Easily a bag a day. Probably not the best decision to go back to that :)
I have thought of dry needling, and have a clinic up the road with an experienced PT that does that.
Will look into the glucosamine. Any particular brands?
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Magnesium daily
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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By chance do you supplement creatine? Have you ever got your creatine levels checked?

Question #2, have you ever tried warming up pretty hard - enough to get a good sweet and some lactic acid production - then active rest (still moving but with a zone 0-1 HR). Followed by some stretching - then your workout?

I'm asking because #1 can cause constant muscle soreness (almost like a pumped up ballon) and #2 can really help with this syndrome.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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Legs help the heart move blood around the body. If your legs are sore constantly, it could mean they are either not getting the oxygen / nutrients they need or the waste your body is creating is not being removed fast enough (as it would make sense it would settle in your legs). I would think a simple blood test could show any issues. Four years in a long time - talk to your family doctor???
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Sent you a PM.

Duathlete by choice?
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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biker2035 wrote:
The sugar I cut out was bags of candy. Jelly beans, gummi worms, orange slices, the list goes on and on. Easily a bag a day. Probably not the best decision to go back to that :)
I have thought of dry needling, and have a clinic up the road with an experienced PT that does that.
Will look into the glucosamine. Any particular brands?

But what about carbs in general??? Maybe you are not eating enough carbs to replace the glycogen you're using when riding anywhere above an easy pace. You say you've still been improving despite the heavy legs but your rate of improvement might be higher if you were to take in more carbs after your workouts, and across the day. Oatmeal, rice, potatoes, bread, etc, are pretty "healthy" carbs.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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I know you're a PT, but have you talked to an MD about this?
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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More answers to questions :)
Have never used Creatine.
Blood tests from MD all show no inflammation/
No shortage of carbs in my daily food intake. Worth considering, and will try increasing sugar intake again.
I'm a cyclist, don't run or swim. I have varied my workouts. Easy spin, hard hammering away and everything in between. The sensation during a ride goes up and down like it should. Easy spin, doesn't produce as much ache as sprinting, but my baseline never changes after a recovery from that particular workout. I never go below a 5/10 in soreness/ache, ever.
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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biker2035 wrote:
More answers to questions :)
Have never used Creatine.
Blood tests from MD all show no inflammation/
No shortage of carbs in my daily food intake. Worth considering, and will try increasing sugar intake again.
I'm a cyclist, don't run or swim. I have varied my workouts. Easy spin, hard hammering away and everything in between. The sensation during a ride goes up and down like it should. Easy spin, doesn't produce as much ache as sprinting, but my baseline never changes after a recovery from that particular workout. I never go below a 5/10 in soreness/ache, ever.

You mentioned earlier that you had taken as much as a month off with no change. Are you saying that, even with a full 30 days of no cycling, your legs still felt the same 5/10 soreness??? If so, that is really strange and i wonder if you are really just super over-trained??? How many years have you been riding and how has your performance varied over the years??? I know you said you've continued to improve over the past 4 yrs but, assuming you might've been riding 10, 15, or more, how does your performance now compare to 8 or 10 yrs ago???

I'm just curious as yours is a very unusual case:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 4 years of leg soreness [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I have cycled all my life, but 8 years ago that was ramped up and continues to grow even more now. I am 44. I am considerably faster now than 4 years ago. After I started riding a lot more than normal is when I notice that my legs were always sore. Didn't matter if it was an easy or hard ride, they were always aching. Yes, a month off of cycling, no basketball, no lifting, basically nothing more than daily walking around for my legs, and there was no difference at the beginning of the month to the end. I can perform at a very high level for a single day event, but back to back moderate rides become very difficult. I have no other symptoms of overtraining. This only affects my quads, it never goes away. I sleep great, I eat well, I am in great shape overall.
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