That's a super OPEN question....depends. You question needs way more qualifications...

Well I made it through that trail marathon this past weekend. 8-12 inches of powdery fresh snow that never really got that well packed down even though it was a 10K loop. And it was 4 degrees F. I was bundled up w/ hand + toe warmers and was fine.
Hilly terrain but I don't have other trail races to compare it to so I don't know how hard it would be considered. I typically just run road races. I ran a solo 28 mile road run a couple weeks ago in 3:45, comfy casual pace, but this trail marathon took me close to 5:30... slow going. It's also hard to run when wearing soooo many layers.

I just reg'd for the NorthFace 50M in May. I bet it's much hillier but I'm also betting there won't be snow (hopefully no rain this year though!).

I'm gonna look into trail shoes. I only run in Saucony Kinvaras, but I'm betting something trail specific might have better grab. Anyone have suggestions? I think I recall a Kinvara trail shoe?

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Peregrine is their trail shoe.Very similar to the Kinvara.

At what pace do you run for the first 2.5 hrs of a 3 hr run before a race taper?

Congrats on the trail marathon. Those boogers can be deceptively challenging. Especially yours.

I am going to get the Canadian Death Race off my bucket list this year. Registration is mid-Feb. I had a flier for it when I was in high school and knew I would have to do it. That was 21 years ago now... A couple of smaller ones along the way for training.

---

Brian

On the roads i do long runs between 830 and 850 per mile. Half marathon race pace is around 725

I'm registered for this race in April. Everything I've read says the hard rock on the mesas is punishing. I only run road so I'm less worried about this than all the climbing!

Anyone have a recommendation for a mixed use trail shoe that is LIGHT? Like sub 9 oz? I need a shoe for hard pack trail and road, not really needing anything that's meant for mud and hiking.

I am sure others with more trail experience can provide some answers but I am currently in the Hoka instinct 2. It’s about 9.5 ounces if memory serves and was the lightest I could find while still having cushioning and some heel/toe offset. I believe the Altras are very popular for their roominess in the toebox, but also not as light and at zero drop would do a number on my calves over the ultra distances.

I hear you. Thanks for the info! I’ve looked at the Altras but not closely yet.

not directed at anyone in particular but what nutrition plan do you guys use for ultrarunning?

With IM racing I have it pretty dialled with what works for me:
Bike: mainly liquid + some calories in the form of bars - roughly 250-300cal/hr
Run: mainly gels with some coke - roughly 100-200cal/hr (was a bit light in my last race)

With ultrarunning I've never carried hydration before usually relying on the course for water and then carrying gels + grabbing refills from seconder/aid station. Into that I also mix in some things like baby potatoes etc.

I think that during my last Comrades in 2015 this was my downfall so planning to change things for this year. Obviously No1 is to practice everything to see if it works but was interested in all of your plans?

My plan is to try and carry a water bottle which I can swap out along the way. I want to carry as many liquid calories as I can in this and possibly aim for 250cal/hr. Not sure if this is doable while running though?

Two litres of water with Endurolyte Fizz in a water pack and Hammer Perpetuem mixed such that I get 4 hrs out of one gel flask. Totally self-sufficient except for water. Always been a firm believe in controlling what I can control and having what I need to hand when I want it. All I need do is top up the water and throw in some more fizz. I keep calories separated from hydration so that I can adjust either as necessary. Keeping nutrition and hydration together obviously does not allow for that.

---

Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

I struggle with getting solid food in me when running although I’m generally ok with specific types likes clif shot bloks. CANNOT stomach Hammer products. I’m experimenting with Carbo Pro mixed with Gatorade for my training runs but I’m also not sure what to do without using on course nutrition. For a 50k I’m less worried I guess. I’ll be running with a bottle and waist pack so I’ll prob have some solid nutrition there.

Went to check out a pair of Sauc Peregrine a few nights ago before coaching a run. The shoe store guys told me to avoid it. They suggested Alta or Hoka. I never run in either but I do need a trail shoe for this 50miler and probably should be wearing them in the trail marathons and stuff. Can anyone school me on trail shoes? I can read reviews but I value the ST opionion more (outside the LR at least ;-)

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

By no means an expert but this is what I run in.
Saucony periguine- shorter technical trails and sometimes on the road if there is snow.
Hoka atr- mid distance trails over 5 miles. They have grip but also pretty good cushion. Can run 10-12 miles on any terrain with no issue.
Altra Olympus- most of my longer trail runs and even road shoulder runs are done in these. They don't have as much grip but have great cushion and are very durable.

I will prob wear the Olympus for the marathon. Not sure if I will be ready for the 50k. This is an IM year so this is not my A race. I try to switch it up every other year from on to off road. Good luck at NF.

A couple years ago, I made a mistake of just carrying a hand held water bottle during an ultra. The aid stations were only 5-6 miles apart, so I thought it wouldn't be a problem. I did not take into account 90+ degrees, high wind, no shade, and the effects of high altitude. I wasn't in as bad of shape as some people that I saw on the course, but I went for so long without peeing after the race that I thought about going to the hospital. The following year I carried a hydration pack (of course, it rained that year) and I would never consider doing an ultra without one again.
For calories, I carry a few gels and Shot Blocks, but for the most part, I just eat what my body tells me to eat at the aid stations. Because the salted potatoes and M&Ms worked so well for me in trail races, I carry those on my bike in IMs.

Thanks.

My longest ultra is comrades so its only 90km which isnt much by ultra standards and there are enough water tables that I shouldnt have to worry about hydration.

Its the nutrition I'm trying to work out. Mainly how many calories per hour and the best method.

On Saturday I did a test run...2:30 with around 400cal consumed and finished the run feeling amazing so I'm going to continue trying around 200cal/hour mainly via liquid nutrition (I mix my own blend of maltodextrin, fructose, caffeine, and glutamine)

none of the biggies for me, but i did (hurray!) complete my first ultra this weekend.. the Uwharrie 40 which is 100% rocks and roots trail with a bit over 5000ft total elevation gain. very rewarding experience and totally nailed my nutrition, pacing, etc. I actually enjoyed the training, including long weekend back to backs, but look forward to getting back on the bike and doing longer sessions in the pool. btw...light swimming is a great compliment to ultra training.

Well done.

I ran Two Oceans last month (56km) as training run towards Comrades. 6 weeks left to go to race day and feeling good. Just into rest week off the back of 3 bigger weeks and feeling great....now just to stay consistent, healthy and flu and injury free!

I ran the North Face 50 Miler at Bear Mountain NY this past weekend. It went much better than expected, especially considering I paced the NJ Marathon at 3:35 just 6 days before.

I'm somewhat sore today but not nearly as bad as expected. My abs are actually more sore than my quads (well, may not quite) I think that means I need more core work before I do something with that much climbing again, but it all worked out.

I'd like to find some more trail ultras, but likely something a bit more groomed. What I disliked was that many of the flats and downhill stretches were nearly un runable, even when I felt like running, because they were just too rocky (dry and wet stream types of things, and just a lot of rocks in general). Forced me to walk/hike a lot more than I liked.

But overall it was a really good experience, the aid stations were super well stocked and pretty frequent. I ran with a few gels and a hand held bottle, and made good use of the stations. Also, the Saucony Peregrine worked really well for me so thanks for the recommendations.

Also, they don't tell you until the final aid station that it really measures out to 51.1 miles. At that point the extra mile felt like 10!

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

I did the 50 miler as well. Was tough, especially all that climbing they packed in the last 5ish miles. I think for the most part that is just the kind of terrain you are going to get in the area. I have done other races in New Jersey and New York and although not as tough as TNF the terrain is all very similar. I have done a few of the njtrailseries.com races and have nothing but good things to say.

I was also looking for information about the Xterra trail race in Steep Rock, Washing Depot, CT. I cant seem to find much information. If anyone has done it or has any information it would be appreciated.

I did the 50k at Bear Mountain. Great event but I was frustrated because I had a lot of energy left at the end but couldn't figure out how to use it because I just couldn't run due to how technical the trails were. So had to power walk or hike. Amazing though how some people are able to run them!

I did the 25k at the Xterra Trail Run this past Saturday at Wawayanda State Park in New Jersey. They also have a 50k which is just 2 loops instead of one. Liked the terrain a lot better. Still some tough sections but a lot more runnable. I don't know why they get so few participants compared to the Bear Mountain race. It's a good event.

So Comrades took place on Sunday which was my A race of the year.

2018 was a down run, but they'd moved the finish to a new stadium so it was a couple kms longer than usual. Great weather on the day...pretty cool with some cloud cover in the early afternoon.

Managed to put together a solid run and walked away with the Silver Medal I was aiming for (sub 7:30) so very happy. Time to take a break and do a some cycling I think.

Crazy to see the winner (male) run a 5:26:34 and the leading lady 6:10:04 (with negative splits)....those guys/gals are crazy fast

I'd like to hear from people who mix ultrarunning with triathlon. Can it be done effectively? Or will both suffer?

I started out in trail running, then got into road tri's, and trail running took a back seat. But I'd like to get back into trail running, specifically with long stuff in mind. It seems like sticking to short and middle distances could be balanced, but the longer you go in distance in both the more the training styles start to diverge.

I can see doing 70.3's and 50k trail in the same season, but doing 140.6 and 100mi trail in the same season seems like too different of goals to attempt simultaneously.