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2016 kona drafting
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Here was a writeup from an athlete in Kona 2016. Thought it was interesting.

Ironman Hawaii: "DRAFTING KILLS ENJOYMENT"
Yes, winning is great--as my 2 World victories were--but it is not enough, at least for me. I need Enjoyment, the Joy of Racing and Competing. Without it, the experience is incomplete, unsatisfactory. Triathlon, particularly when we push ourselves to the limit, and beyond, at times, is just too hard if, while doing it, we are not "enjoying" it. For example, the blatant drafting and the passivity of marshals at last Saturday's race destroyed my Joy of Racing on that tough day. I was frustrated as, I know, many of you, by several things during the bike segment.
1) the Blatant Drafting by so many (too many) triathletes, without shame. That is what really annoyed me this year (my previous participation was 2006 which was already pretty bad, but this year it was much worse, just plain awful): so many triathletes, knowing full well the rules, made the decision to cheat, purposedly. It was decided with premeditation. And when I confronted them, they were mad at me. When I would pass them and move to the right of the road in front of them, they would shout at me and repass me on the right! or immediately on the left without going back 6 lengths, and even on the shoulder! One guy even answered "who cares, there are no marshals anyway". I felt being a "sucker" the whole day, the only one (I know many follow the rules) following the rules and braking in order to go back 6 lengths ( I admit that in the last 40kms, I went back only 4-5 lengths--still better than zero--(I was tired to be the "idiot" of the day). One guy (I cannot call them triathletes anymore) rode on the shoulder overtaking people from the right for several kms. I even witnessed 2 guys of my own AG 60-64 drafting a few inches behind another rider as if they were in the Tour de France. Not even trying to go back at least 3-4 lengths, if not 6. Not even trying! They did not care at all about the rules as mentioned by the Head Referee Jimmy Riccitello at the briefing. Why?
2) Perhaps, because they knew something I didn't, that the marshals would not only be lenient but outright non-existant, thus incompetent. Or were they given instructions to enforce the rules with the Pros but not too much with the AG? One one hand, I don't want to believe that because it has jeopardized the bike portion of lots of triathletes, perhaps taking away their desire to return to Kona. I witnessed many times Marshal No.2 (blond woman) on her motorcycle riding beside groups of 5-10 people drafting, and not even blowing her whistle. On the other hand, there is clearly a laxist attitude within the @IRONMANWorldChampionship #imkona2016 race direction. With so many years of experience, how is that possible that it cannot manage successfully the drafitng problem? "Oh, but now there are 2500 athletes, which is too many", I was told. Ok then I am telling it "reduce the no. of athletes to 1500, or change the mass start to an AG waves start, as in the Worlds 70.3.", and put more motorcycles on the course. It does not seem to be very complicate to organize.
3) The IM World Championship should be the fairest race of all Worlds, and it is the least fair race of all Worlds. Yes, there was also drafting in Mooloolaba, but at least each AG wave had the same race conditions. For ex. our wave AG 60+, starting last men's wave, had a perfect, honest, and fair race with zero drafting possible. And the athletes within an AG who faced drafting situations, at least, they faced the same race conditions as their direct opponents. But in Kona, with the mass start, the bike dynamics are totally different for each athlete and changing constantly as the race evolves, making some racing strategies superfluous and rendering the race unfair.
4) One last point: it all starts with the individual triathlete. That's were the first responsiblity lies, within our heart, our soul. "The Original Spirit of Triathlon". Doesn't that mean anything anymore? With its values of Chivalry: courage, fairplay, solidarity, sportsmanlike conduct, honor. If we all take a little step towards them, the World of Triathlon will be a better place and we will all feel happier while racing. My Passion for Triathlon goes beyond winning. I want again to feel ENJOYMENT.
PLEASE SHARE--MERCI de PARTAGER

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I'll put $100 he did a IM event in 2017!

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I'll put $100 he did a IM event in 2017!

Does that take away his "right" to complain about something?
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [M~] [ In reply to ]
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No, it makes it empty......"OMG those races are draft fest....hold my beer.... while i sign up for another event i just complained for".

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I'll put $100 he did a IM event in 2017!

True which is why I just say allow drafting "legally", since it is happening anyways. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of people ascribe nefarious motives to those they see drafting (or "drafting") in races when I think very few people are intentionally cheating. Even this guy admits that the circumstances in Kona were such that he could not comply with the letter of the law but he is still righteous while the others are cheaters. Also, I bet that those people were yelling at him because he was slotting in illegally. Just a hunch.

I've not done Kona but at 70.3 worlds there is a lot of drafting and it is literally impossible to avoid. It's not the same back in his 60-64 AG wave. It's not just that you would sacrifice your race to not violate the rule. It is impossible.

So he wants to limit Kona to 1500 slots. Fine for him to say since his AG will continue to get the same number of slots allowing him to qualify finishing in the top %15 of his AG or even lower. But in M 30-49 instead of having to finish top 1% in the AG to get a slot you'll have to finish in the top 0.3%. and in Kona there will be the same number of 65 year olds as 35 year olds despite the vastly different participation numbers.

This guy needs to stop screaming about the kids on his lawn and think rationally.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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First, I agree whole heartedly... And particularly with looped courses, there are , for sure, some 70.3s that do not have enough road space to allow all athletes to be on the road an not drafting. Its mathematically impossible.

Maybe someday they move kona to a 2 day like 70.3? In theory that could give some more room on the road.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [dcohen24] [ In reply to ]
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That would be amazing. For us.

But for people that live there it would suck. They probably could not get the permits. The Queen K is the only way to get north of Kona.

And WTC would just add more athletes anyway.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I have been thinking a lot about this lately (and a bit worried). I talked to JD about this a month ago and he said for him it wasn't a problem because he was so far back on the swim, all he was doing was passing. I'm not the greatest swimmer but, I know I'll have to practically go backwards to truly avoid drafting - at least for the first part of the bike. Yet, I don't want drafting to be allowed, if for no other reason than safety (especially with the nasty cross winds). I'm hoping for my courage to not get sucked into a competitive attitude at all during the bike, and, that enforcement is strong. I suspect that enforcement is stronger towards the front of the bike "pack" but, that's just a guess. I'm aware that "weaker" riders who are strong runners benefit from a draft legal situation, but that's not the original intent of triathlon, and I've trained towards "it's an individual event" philosophy since day one.

Look for me on video - I'll be the guy going backwards! (and I'll still end up in the PT :-| ).

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
I'll put $100 he did a IM event in 2017!


True which is why I just say allow drafting "legally", since it is happening anyways. :)


Legal drafting is interesting. I'm instinctively against it because it seems a time trial is fairer but I suppose that is only if everyone plays fair. On the other hand it might be financially fairer, who needs sports car priced bikes to ride in a pack?

I hope they solve it via technology but I think we have to complain enough to make them invest in that.

My question (because you ride draft legal races don't you Mr Fun?) is do you think all the people who take part now could ride safely in a pack?
Last edited by: OddSlug: Oct 4, 17 9:55
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
No, it makes it empty......"OMG those races are draft fest....hold my beer.... while i sign up for another event i just complained for".

Your criticism would only be fair if he signed up for an IM known for drafting - typically those with either large fields and/or flat courses. IMs with rolling starts and fewer than 2000 participants are generally not draft fests. And speaking of starts, Kona may be the only IM left with a semi-mass start (4 waves: pro men, pro women, AG men, AG women).
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
A lot of people ascribe nefarious motives to those they see drafting (or "drafting") in races when I think very few people are intentionally cheating. Even this guy admits that the circumstances in Kona were such that he could not comply with the letter of the law but he is still righteous while the others are cheaters. Also, I bet that those people were yelling at him because he was slotting in illegally. Just a hunch.

I've not done Kona but at 70.3 worlds there is a lot of drafting and it is literally impossible to avoid. It's not the same back in his 60-64 AG wave. It's not just that you would sacrifice your race to not violate the rule. It is impossible.

So he wants to limit Kona to 1500 slots. Fine for him to say since his AG will continue to get the same number of slots allowing him to qualify finishing in the top %15 of his AG or even lower. But in M 30-49 instead of having to finish top 1% in the AG to get a slot you'll have to finish in the top 0.3%. and in Kona there will be the same number of 65 year olds as 35 year olds despite the vastly different participation numbers.

This guy needs to stop screaming about the kids on his lawn and think rationally.

Calls to reduce the field are non-starters given that WTC is profit driven. The OPs call for AG waves is a better solution but as soon as you do that, you'll here people screaming about the mass start tradition, or the fact that making the midnight cut-off will even further reduce the total time to finish for the later waves.

One of Brett Sutton's coaches wrote an excellent piece about last year's drafting and how tightly the men came out of the water. It isn't mathematically possible to spread the field per the drafting rules with the density of riders starting the bike and the close spread of ability at Kona. There is no easy solution here that some group won't oppose.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Like I said, I've got $100 on the race he signed up for in 2017 was a *known* draft fest.....want to go in on that wager?

I get what your saying, so let's see if your analysis or mine was correct.


ETA: Either way, my point is even bigger than this guy. He's right in that it is the athlete's that have this real control. Just that the overwhelming majority don't care enough about this particular offense to cause them to not race IM events. And that's fine, but that was why I made my initial comment. I bet he still did an IM event in 2017.....

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Oct 4, 17 10:33
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
I'll put $100 he did a IM event in 2017!

True which is why I just say allow drafting "legally", since it is happening anyways. :)

I know, right?!? I keep trying to tell people that we should all be allowed to drive as drunk as we want, since some people do it anyways.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Having a quick look in the results list of hawaii 2016, the fastest biker in m 60-64 did 5.24, the rest > 5.30, only ten or fifteen under 6 hours.
5.24 is only 33,4 km/h, so some of the fastest were still slower than 33 and only 10 to 15 faster than 30 km/h.

Ok we talk about 60-64, but still those are not times which would be achieved when someone drafts a lot. These 15 guys who were faster than 30 km/h could easily go under 5 hours if they would really draft most of the time.

Understand me well, it is a shame when someone drafts very cheaky (hanging without scruples a couple of inches behind someone), yes one should not draft at all if possible. The drafting will certainly influence the pace of such a drafter, but looking at the biketimes in the resultslists the effect of drafting was (maybe surprisingly) not sooooooo deciding in the end, at least not in the top 15.

At least I draw that conclusion after having a quick glance at the results list.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I have done 9 IM's, Kona 2x. Kona is by far the worst I have seen. I would add that is is not so blatant as riding right behind others, but too close without a doubt, and the ENTIRE way. I swam 1:04 in 2016 and the traffic was so thick. It did not "kill my enjoyment" at all though, if you start stressing about what others are doing that is your fault. Plenty of folks were in the tents too.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Like I said, I've got $100 on the race he signed up for in 2017 was a *known* draft fest.....want to go in on that wager?

I get what your saying, so let's see if your analysis or mine was correct.


ETA: Either way, my point is even bigger than this guy. He's right in that it is the athlete's that have this real control. Just that the overwhelming majority don't care enough about this particular offense to cause them to not race IM events. And that's fine, but that was why I made my initial comment. I bet he still did an IM event in 2017.....

A few minutes of internet sleuthing tells me that the post is from the winner of the M60-64 at Kona in 2016...confirmed by a crosscheck of the blog posted on facebook. I plugged his name into obstri.com and see that so far in 2017, he has raced only 70.3s (1st @ St George, 1st at IM70.3 European Champs, and 2nd at Chatt Worlds). The year is not over yet, but I think you are wrong about this guy.

I also disagree with your larger point because Kona is unique in field size and depth of talent. Your assumption that because rampant drafting exists at Kona then it is rampant at all Ironman races is simply incorrect since there are a lot of races with fewer than 2000 athletes. Do you think Los Cabos will be a draftfest (they might get 600 if they are lucky this final year). What about IM Vichy (1300)? And I've yet to hear anyone talk about Lanzarote or Wales as a draftfest. I think the overwhelming majority wants there to be no drafting but sign up in spite of it. E.g., a lot of folks go to IMFL because it's within driving distance for them and they don't have the time or money to go further.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Huff keep going with your analysis by all means, I'd be curious how many IM's would be "draft fests" and not draft fests.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Huff keep going with your analysis by all means, I'd be curious how many IM's would be "draft fests" and not draft fests.


IM Brazil and IM Cozumel.

Edit: forgot to add IM Barcelona
Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Oct 4, 17 11:23
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
A few minutes of internet sleuthing tells me that the post is from the winner of the M60-64 at Kona in 2016...confirmed by a crosscheck of the blog posted on facebook. I plugged his name into obstri.com and see that so far in 2017, he has raced only 70.3s (1st @ St George, 1st at IM70.3 European Champs, and 2nd at Chatt Worlds). The year is not over yet, but I think you are wrong about this guy.

FYI He is not on the bib list for 2017 Kona, which he would have qualified for by winning his AG at 2016 Kona.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]
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More evidence that he was disgusted enough not to repeat.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't his son get a penalty at WC 70.3 this year for drafting?
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [Raw Oyster] [ In reply to ]
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Beats me, I wasn't there. However, I am also in the M60-64 AG which typically starts right after the pros in many 70.3 races. I did Augusta 70.3 two weeks ago and within a few miles on the bike it was more like a solo TT event despite the announcer saying that Augusta was the 2nd largest 70.3 race in the world. The experience of later age groups is very different, but those at the front get a clean race.

Edit for typo.
Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Oct 4, 17 12:49
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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I believe that his son races as a Pro and received a penalty at the IM 70.3 World Championship race this year, which provides a little irony to his post last year. Hope you had a good day in Augusta. I know it got a little warm on that run for everyone.
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Re: 2016 kona drafting [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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OddSlug wrote:
On the other hand it might be financially fairer, who needs sports car priced bikes to ride in a pack?

There’s a secret the bike companies don’t want you to know: no one needs a sports car priced bike to ride on their own either. To do well in a time trial it goes something like

-strong legs
-good position
-lots of practice
.
.
.
-handmade silk tires
-sports car priced bike
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