Thanks. No question what you have for the rules have thought.

Since new, just love asking the why questions, as us engineers love to do. :) I continue to understand it drives non engineers nuts. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Why would you say that it is better to do some doubles and some non-days rather than just a single run every day?
Is there a large benefit to having that one day off and making up for it with a double day rather than having a consistent run each day?
Would this change depending on your training goals?
For myself I had planned to just run each day and then make up any missing days as and when they were required but if the consensus is that you should do double to then allow a day off I might consider changing my approach.

Thanks.
Coops

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Blog: http://www.coopstriblog.wordpress.com
Latest blog: Setting Goals. With or Without Gin.
Date: 10/31/2017

To answer your question, almost no program has athletes running every day unless you live in Iten Kenya and run around 150-200 mile per week....that is a different game. In general on 100/100 we are talking about athletes doing <<< than 40 miles per week (70K per week is 10K per day which is 1000K over the challenge). Now that we have established that most of the runners in the challenge are relatively low volume runners (in the context of running), it is probably better to take a rest day here and there and plan those in.

However, part of the attraction of the 100/100 is to indeed get to 100 (if you can and have the physical means). This is why we decided that it would make sense to allow you all to break up another day that would be 60+ min running ANYWAY into two runs. Examples I gave were the duathlon workout or run commute to the pool.

I personally THINK that is better than running every day. Furthermore the 2015-16 wussification rule was added to make the 100/100 embraceable by more programs allowing for 15 minutes and 45 minute runs on attached days to count for 2x30....just to get people out on the low volume day without messing up their training programs.

At the end of the day, some modifications were met to keep the spirit of running 100 days in row to running 100 times and just getting you all out and running as often as possible, while hopefully minimizing any injury risk. I feel it is a fine balance between keeping you all engaged and losing people due to burn out or injuries. Days off are good, low volume days are good. For more advanced runners 30 min is a low volume day. For some of you it is not. So use the "rules" to your advantage.

:)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The Pfitzinger marathoning plans have a run every day once you get to the 85 mpw plan. Surprised me the first time I checked it out. I flipped through the plan, expecting to see a rest day in there somewhere, but nope - 18 straight weeks of running every day, right up until the race. Too much for me during taper, so I now take a day or two off on race week - at least one for travel.

That being said, I missed Friday as part of a mini-taper for a Sunday half (ok, it was raining) and I haven't run yet today. It's like 40° out there! You guys are crazy!

Talking of crazy (weather): Saturday morning 80 mile ride then 4 mile run in 78' temps, then Sunday morning 14 mile run in 36' temps - crazy Houston weather.

 
3h40m Saturday in fresh snow while it freezing rained. Wish I'd got out more than an hour before sunset - was a little eerie slogging through some knee-deep places in the dark.





Then -11c for last night's run on trail below, -8c for my lunch run and -12c for this evening's run. No coyotes today, though; just urban running.



Still tough on the ankles with lumpy snow & ice, but at least it seems it's supposed to get milder for the rest of the year - right around the freezing mark by tomorrow and possibly slightly above it soon.

It's very pretty in the woods, and there are lots of fun Christmas decorations up around town. Go exploring!

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ill advised racing inc.

I am familiar with Pfitzinger training method... and I think you may not be fully understanding that under his method of marathon training for +85 MPW, the tapering process kicks in about three weeks prior to race day. He feels that tempo workouts are relatively easy to recover from, long runs a little more difficult because he never really trains at marathon pace for more than 14-15 miles, and v/o type workouts are the most difficult. Tapering for a tune up race would require 4-5 "recovery days", with a similar interval of time between similar workouts. However, because each of these type of workouts uses a different energy system, he feels comfortable with less "recovery" between regular workouts. So, the idea is that rest does not mean resting the entire body, just resting the energy system that was primarily targeted. The two main factors to consider are degree of muscle damage and glycogen depletion. While he generally follows the hard / easy principle, he does at times even alter that to hard/hard/easy/easy. Back in the day, I used to ride with (actually try and keep up with for a while) an olympic road rider. He used to tell me that when his training had progressed to where he could hammer out consecutive hard days, i.e. such as back to back hard 100 mile rides, he knew he was very close to being ready. If you examine the last 4 weeks of Pftzingers 18 week training plan, you will see that about 40% of the days are easy recovery days, 4 days at Vo2Max, 3 long runs, and the rest general aerobic with a little bit of speed. While it is true there are no absolute rest days, the peak miles day is at 5 weeks before race day, and goes a little backwards from there.

This will be my second year doing this challenge. Last year it helped me PR three races. Incredible what consistency in running can do.
I am also doing the Pfitz 18/ 85 plan for the first time and will see in a couple weeks how the body feels with the extra milage, so far so good.
Hope to BQ my marathon then running my first Ultra 100 miler in late February.

I've followed Pfitz for about 4 years now. First time through the 85 mpw plan, I think I was a little overtrained with the everyday running. I get that he preaches the hard/easy philosophy (and sometimes gets you to sneak in another hard run on back-to-back days), but there's nothing wrong with mixing in a day off if you feel like you need it.

I also think the higher-mileage plans might require a little more rest in the leadup to the race for those who are doing them for the first time. Mostly just based on my n=1 experience, but I've noticed that a few weeks AFTER the race, I'm starting to feel like the benefits of the training are finally kicking in. Almost like the race was the last hard effort and the recovery was a taper. This has dissipated a bit as I've gone through more cycles.

If you look at that first "taper" week on the plans, it certainly doesn't seem all that tapery - a VO2max session, a med-long run then a race, followed by a long run. Mileage only steps down a bit.

You can brute force your way into the race without taking a day off, but IMO, it will probably be more beneficial to take a day or two off leading up to the race - especially if it's a destination race that will require travel.

I am not surprised that you wrote that you felt more race fit a few weeks after your peak race. In cycling, the Tours of Italy or Switzerland, are multi day races that some riders use to build race fitness for the Tour D France. There is no substitute for racing, and tune up races in running either. Be it Pfitzinger, Hansen, Daniels, all of them schedule tune up races proximate to the race. Pfitzinger schedules a 8-10 K two weeks before marathon day. Hansens has a tune up race just 4-5 days before. Again, the point is the taper is 2-4 weeks long and culminates with some speed work the week of the race ( so, you have like two weeks of nothing but recovery weeks, then a week of speed work, perhaps twice a week during the last week.) All that said, this stuff is written for 25 year olds, not older guys. When you get older, you just have to figure out a different way, be it more time on your bike or other cross training. One thing for sure, rest days are just that, no nothing. The term "recovery day" is a complete misnomer ... the only way you really recover, is as you suggest, do nothing. Recovery days are just there to keep the volume up and allow you to train in an glycogen depleted state without killing yourself. I know that all the books say, recovery days are about blood flow to the legs, and getting rid of lactic acid, and in my view this utter and complete baloney, and especially after age 45-50. Don;t get me wrong, I love volume training. My best races are done with huge volume and almost zero speed training. My best races never come after taking multiple rest days, in fact my worst races came after days off. In fact, my best racing seems to have come about two months after this 100/100 challenge. I suspect what is going on is a much longer schedule... more like a 30-35 week build up rather than 16-18 weeks. I don't know why so many of these plans are built around 18 weeks, probably because they want to sell plans 3 times a year. It really makes little sense to me.

If this is not linked to Strava or GC to automatically upload, then lets at least fix the manual upload of tcx files!

When I manually upload a tcx from my Garmin 310XT, it does not show time or distance.

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Race Reports, etc -- Bob's Bikes

I see that H20 didn't waste any time making the rules work to his advantage!

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No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

I am not the only one, so why single me out?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I don't see a problem with using the rules to our advantage. As long as the person is running for a minimum of 30 minutes each time and has at least an hour between each run I say go for it!

Folks, lighten up! It was a good-natured ribbing, given the multiple questions by H20 re: double run days. I edited my post to put it in pink. All better now?

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No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

I had one of my best workouts since starting back training in April. Wednesday is my running club's track workout day. We went on the road and did 8x1 mile on 2.30 rest. Averaged 5.23 for them all and felt really smooth overall (well, except for the last one).

The next few days with the Christmas activities will be light but will fully resume on Monday. My legs can use a few super easy days, too...

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speedySTATES

That is one killer workout!! Got to try that one day. If you don't mind whats your mile PR so that I can try to calculate my pace.

:)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I ran a 4.33 1600 but that was 10 years ago. Could probably only do a 4.50 or so right now because I'm not training for it specifically. This workout was somewhere between 10k and half marathon pace.

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speedySTATES

Yeesh. Nice workout! When getting ready for a marathon, I try to get my last 3x1 down around 5:30, but that's only 3 reps and I take about 4:00 rest. I hate the fast stuff.

I have some decent news to report. I did my first "real run" in > 15 months. I started with a shuffle on my treadmills with Vibrams (i have better coordination and nervous system function with these unicorn shoes since they splay my metatarsels and open up the nerve endings) at 4 mph and then gradually brought it up to 5 mph. Yeah, I realize this is slower than my slowest blowup Ironman pace but it felt more like jogging than shuffling. Then I started playing around with grade...first up to 8%, then 10, then 12 then 15. At 5 mph at 15% your definitely "running" but the pounding is low. I just alternated up to 10-15% range and then back down to zero to 4% range. Gradually brought speed up to 6 mph then 6.5 mph. That felt like actual running on the steep grade. The steep grades felt good as I have been doing some snowshoe running/hiking in the hills in knee deep snow.

It felt really good and I really wanted to keep going but cut it off at 42 minutes. My cardio is awesome from all the swimming and kick sets have my legs pretty good condition not to mention water running, but I need to be careful cashing cheques that my body can't afford (YET).

In any case, I got a real 100/100 run in. No snowshoes this time, but the snowshoe work seems to have helped my range of motion and nervous system function. Let's see how this goes. I hope it's not my only one, but i am hopeful it ain't. It's been a long haul since I felt I was coordinated enough to run....disc injury and nerve compression has been taking forever to get better.

Awesome work, Dev! This is fantastic news!

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Great news, dev...hope the progress continues!!

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Glad to hear you were able to run, Dev.