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2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned
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Only one (barely longer than a prologue) 13.7K ITT on Stage 1 and a 28K TTT on Stage 9...that's it! I would argue that without a longer ITT effort we will not know who is truly the best all-around cyclist. I want a return to a "true" Tour - like in 1987 when we had 5 time trial efforts in total with a whooping 87K ITT on stage 10!
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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that's lame.

why would the likes of Tony Martin even consider this unless he plans another huge solo effort off the front like at last year's vuelta!
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I'm getting more and more cynical in my old age. Who's a really good racer that can't TT? Not that I would ever imply that a route would be chosen to assist a particular rider...
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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DC Pattie wrote:
Only one (barely longer than a prologue) 13.7K ITT on Stage 1 and a 28K TTT on Stage 9...that's it! I would argue that without a longer ITT effort we will not know who is truly the best all-around cyclist. I want a return to a "true" Tour - like in 1987 when we had 5 time trial efforts in total with a whooping 87K ITT on stage 10!
Agree, i saw the new course and the lack of TTs is very lame.


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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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More cobbles and a finish on the Mur de Huy.

While I think they could have snuck in another ITT (up Alpe D'huez?), I think the ASO is doing well finding terrain which makes the race interesting. Nibali can take time on the cobbles again. Valverde/Rodriguez will do well on the Mur. Lack of a long ITT will favour Quintana.

And for Froome? Well he still has his stem to stare at.
Last edited by: timbasile: Oct 22, 14 4:39
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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love it
tour is different every year and nothing wrong with a low TT year.

Best all around cyclist has no definition anyway.



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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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+1

Only been 2 years since everybody was complaining that there was too much TTing and it turned the Tour into a Sky snoozefest. Variety is the spice of life!
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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It looks as though Froome has ruled himself out already to focus on a Giro-Vuelta double:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/29721147
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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I think they did it just to stick it to Andy - wait until he retires and take out most of the TT Ks
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
More cobbles and a finish on the Mur de Huy.

While I think they could have snuck in another ITT (up Alpe D'huez?), I think the ASO is doing well finding terrain which makes the race interesting. Nibali can take time on the cobbles again. Valverde/Rodriguez will do well on the Mur. Lack of a long ITT will favour Quintana.

And for Froome? Well he still has his stem to stare at.

I don't know, Quintana was a decent TTer when he wasn't busy crashing out of the lead - at least, decent enough to claw back that time in the mountains. It actually sounds like a move to encourage the lesser-known climbers, the ones who possess Schleckian levels of TT prowess. Mollema, Arredondo, Pozzovivo spring to mind.

Shame we can't bring a 2011-level Frandy Brothers into the 2015 Tour.

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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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I'm torn. While I like having the TT's in there to shake things up, it really is boring TV. Those are the only stages where I just fast forward to the end to see who won.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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Trying to do everything possible to keep the top French riders competitive.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [triordie1994] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994 wrote:
that's lame.

why would the likes of Tony Martin even consider this unless he plans another huge solo effort off the front like at last year's vuelta!

Why do you think the likes of Tony Martin are even considered when planning the TdF route?

I haven't looked at it yet in detail, but it certainly seems to favor Quintana and AC (although he can hold his own against the clock).

I'm OK with the road deciding the winner vs. TT's, but I hope there are enough hilly stages to make it interesting.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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The UCI are afraid beam bikes will make a comeback...

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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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Velonews is reporting that time bonuses are making a return for the top three of each stage. Anyone know what they are? I doubt they've be the 20 sec variety that the Giro once had. While I doubt that this will make or break a race (though the 2011 Vuelta came down to time bonuses), it should make the first week interesting, especially if a Valverde or Rodriguez type wins on the Mur.

Also: I like what they're doing on a few stages by making the main climb the 2nd last in the series. The stage to Pra-Loup seems perfectly suited to a long range attack of the Schleck/Galibier or the Quintana/Stelvio type raid. The short climb to Alpe D'huez (110km) should also give some fireworks.
Last edited by: timbasile: Oct 22, 14 6:30
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Giro does 10, 6, and 4. That seems reasonable to me. I've always been a fan of time bonuses because it creates incentives for aggression right to the line.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see where VN is reporting the inclusion of time bonuses. In their preview article yesterday, they specifically said that mid-stage and final time bonuses were not likely. ASO has made an effort to not have time bonuses in recent years. Personally, I prefer it that way. I can understand the point of bonuses in the first, flat stages....you want to see the jersey change hands and create some excitement. But once the real racing starts, the times should be the times. Tine bonuses in mountain stages or TT's are bullschitt and should be shut down. Wink

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah started going downhill ever since they took that break starting in 1915 and its status as a "true" Tour was lost when they did it AGAIN in 1940 for some reason. Probably to give riders a chance to relax. In my mind, Philippe Thys was the greatest TdF champion ever; three time winner from the time when men were men. Once they started allowing non-wooden rims and multiple gearing, it was clear an era was over.

I want a return to a "true" Tour. None of these "alloy" or "carbon" rims or those fancy multiple gears. Essentially any TdF after 1940 wasn't a "true" Tour.

Who is with me?!?
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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I don't need 5 ITT stages, but in my view no grand tour is complete without at least one fearsome long TT of at least 50km and a mountain stage the covers the category 1 or harder climbs. I wonder if the TT stages have gotten less media attention over time. The short TT stages don't afford anyone the opportunity to make a very large impact.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [dgran] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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jjabr wrote:
Yeah started going downhill ever since they took that break starting in 1915 and its status as a "true" Tour was lost when they did it AGAIN in 1940 for some reason. Probably to give riders a chance to relax. In my mind, Philippe Thys was the greatest TdF champion ever; three time winner from the time when men were men. Once they started allowing non-wooden rims and multiple gearing, it was clear an era was over.

I want a return to a "true" Tour. None of these "alloy" or "carbon" rims or those fancy multiple gears. Essentially any TdF after 1940 wasn't a "true" Tour.

Who is with me?!?

Hipster.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
I'm OK with the road deciding the winner vs. TT's, but I hope there are enough hilly stages to make it interesting.


Right now, the winner is the best climber who can TT well enough. Take out TTs and the tour is a measure of he who has the best watts/kg.

You want the road to decide the winner, then you want mountains, extensive TTs, 5 man teams instead of 9, and hard, single day classic like stages where you cannot hide in your team shell and wait on the mountains to decide everything. That'll get you the best all around racer, not just the highest watts/kg that you get now.
Last edited by: kny: Oct 22, 14 7:42
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [kny] [ In reply to ]
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kny wrote:
Power13 wrote:

I'm OK with the road deciding the winner vs. TT's, but I hope there are enough hilly stages to make it interesting.


Right now, the winner is the best climber who can TT well enough. Take out TTs and the tour is a measure of he who has the best watts/kg.

You want the road to decide the winner, then you want mountains, extensive TTs, 5 man teams instead of 9, and hard, single day classic like stages where you cannot hide in your team shell and wait on the mountains to decide everything. That'll get you the best all around racer, not just the highest watts/kg that you get now.

Sorry, meant road stages, not road. brain moving faster than my fingers.

Couldn't disagree more that it then results in a measure of who has the best watts / KG. So much more to road racing than that.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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The way I see it is the TdF winner is always one the top 2 or 3 climbers (ie, watts/kg) in the race. Usually the top 1. If it is not the top 1, it is due to one of these reasons:
1 - poor time trialling takes away advantage gained via climbing. See Rasmussen, Michael
2 - bad "luck". I put luck in quotes because luck is often made. Good luck is often thanks to a good team that keeps the GC man out of bad luck's way. Bad luck can be crashes (see Froome, Chris), cobbles (Mayo, Iban), wind (Contador, Alberto), even a rogue dog or musette bag.

Take away the chance for a Rasmussen to lose the TdF due to poor time trialling, and the race is even more a show for the highest watts/kg with good team support to keep bad luck at bay.

It will never happen, but I'd love to see no radios and 5 man teams. Would make for way more interesting racing and would force the GC contenders out of their protected cocoons some.
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Re: 2015 TdF Route: Time Trials be Damned [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
I don't see where VN is reporting the inclusion of time bonuses. In their preview article yesterday, they specifically said that mid-stage and final time bonuses were not likely.

Right after the paragraph "Fighting for Victory"
http://velonews.competitor.com/...-dhuez-finale_350169

Velonews wrote:

Those two tough finishing climbs, as well as the return of bonus seconds for the first three — for the first time since 2007 — are aimed at animating the early part of the race, according to Prudhomme.
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