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2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report
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Hey all, first post on ST and after months of taking information I figured I'd start trying to add some value.


I'm doing my first IM @ IMLT this fall and was able to get out and ride a course loop Saturday in fairly good weather (~65F). Map: http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#axzz3XzPoFvFV


A few key tactical observations on the course, which I'd break up into the following segments:
  • Kings Beach to Tahoe city

    • Fairly flat, fairly fast. Dollar hill is steepish but it's only ~5 mins
    • My highest HR (almost to LT by mistake) was on the Grove st cutoff-- it's short but really steep at the end. Would be easy to burn a match here.
    • WARNING: Very deep/sharp edge holes around the manhole covers on Fairway drive. Hopefully they'll mark this on race day. There are 3-5 that could wreck you and your wheel at any reasonable speed.
  • Tahoe City to "end" of glenshire drive

    • Woooooooooooooo! It's fast. Name of the game here will be figuring out how much pedaling is even needed with all that air resistance. This also really wrecked my mental ability to gauge effort on later parts of the course. Anything below 20mph feels achingly slow after 20+ miles @ 30mph
  • Truckee Legacy bike path to base of Brockway grade (Martis meadow)

    • This is the newest segment and the pavement is mint condition! However it's pretty narrow and...
    • WARNING: The two switchbacks at ~0.5 miles in will definitely claim some victims. Narrow path, tons of little rocks, and very high speeds. I had aluminum rims/strong brakes on the bike and it was still a close call
    • The bike path is very rolly terrain and if you're a fly fisherman it's pretty hard to keep your eyes on the road
  • Martis meadow to Brockway summit (and back to King's Beach)

    • This is a long slog but it wasn't as horrible as I anticipated. Honestly, just sit up and put it in your lowest gear (see gearing notes below)



And some high level thoughts (For reference: I'm male, mid-20s, 2nd year triathlete, mid-pack+ biker):
  • It's fast

    • I train in SF area, so I'm used to hills. My medium distance route at sea level (~46 mi, almost exact same as this loop, less elevation gain) was actually slightly slower than the Tahoe loop. Without a power meter this isn't apples to apples, but Tahoe certainly isn't worse. That thin air lets you rip
    • Other than 2 very short segments pavement is in great condition. It's a good course
  • Gearing

    • I'm rolling a 52/36 and 11-28... I was able to do Brockway ~ 10 bpm below my LT. I'm definitely going to go compact though... even though it's not a massive gearing distance, getting a little more spin or a straighter chainline on the looooong climb is worth it in my book. Weak/BOP racers might consider a 32 rear, but it's not mandatory for others like I'd heard from earlier course reports.
  • Bike choice

    • No way a road bike is faster here (was wondering that initially). Well over 2/3 of the time is high speed wind-resistance cruising.
  • Hydration

    • Using a before/after digital scale I found that I actually used.... LESS water per hour than at sea level? Very odd. I thought for sure I'd need more water. Anyone else noticed this?
    • ~24 oz/hour in Tahoe vs ~27 oz/hour @ sea level, same distance/HR, roughly same temp. (No, do not start the total replacement debate, these numbers are just benchmarks)
  • Sad times

    • The truckee river along the run route is already completely dry (no water releases out of tahoe). It's a tough year in the area.

Of course YMMV. Hopefully that's helpful for everyone that's signed up/thinking about it. Looking forward to a great race in 22 weeks!
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for this intelligence on the course. I am keeping my options open to do IM Tahoe as my last race of the year. Really depends on work related travel in the same time frame and if I am in San Jose (viable) or some other part of the world (which would make it non viable). Thanks for your first post on ST. Definitely high value. Keep it up.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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Great report. Overall what I remember from 2013.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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Welcome and great first post.


Train safe & smart
Bob

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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Longboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Great information. As somebody still contemplating signing up for this race, I appreciate all the information.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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adamas, what was your cadence on the steep sections with that gearing ratio? I showed up last year with that same gearing (didn't get to try it out) and plan to this year as well, but back of mind I am a little nervous that I will not have enough gears to keep the watts in check for the longer climbs.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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We had a discussion on the new course, how fast some of the segments will be, actual amount of climbing and I broke down the course at this link:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/IM_Lake_Tahoe_Climbing%2C_How_Much_P5501345


I'd be curious what you got for elevation gain if you had an accurate measuring device?


Also, If you are sitting @ 10 beats under threshold on just 1 lap. with no swim, in a 36x28 you need to be 100% in a 34x28 but maybe even better a 30 on race day


I mentioned in that thread that @ 3 watts per kilo that entire Brockway climb will take 30min'ish ... a large majority of the field will take 40+min


Cheers,

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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@lrothey I sadly won't have cadence until the power meter gets here next week, but it's a math problem. My speed for first 2/3 of the climb puts me at around 65. The last slog I dropped down to around 48. That's with a 36-28. A 34-28 would only add about 3rpm, but would straighten the chainline. I'll be back up there in a month or two as the true predictor is what power/kg i need to turn at that cadence to keep rolling. If that's too high, 32 time.

@Dave "accurate" is doubtful because I'm using a 920xt (aka barometer) and a thunderstorm was chasing me around. I got 2516ft for the loop--just checked trainingpeaks and the segment from kings beach to squaw turnoff (didn't ride up that road after turnoff) is ~ 450 ft. So overall garmin would claim around 5500ft + that tiny squaw valley segment. I should probably enable elevation corrections on the 920... just checked what correcting elevation in Trainingpeaks would be and it gave me 3549ft which feels high.

Thanks for thoughts re: gearing. I'm diving into my full blown training plan next week so I'm definitely not in IM shape. Definitely will go back with power meter/my FTP to get an unequivocal answer. Will post results up then.

From the turn out of martis meadow (aka right next to giant northstar sign, where grade begins) to Brockway peak took me 36 minutes
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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I can see loop a being approx 2500 feet gain (dollar + brockway is 1450'ish) BUT there is no chance that its even close to 3500 ... the original course was 3500 for on loop.

-That puts two loops @ 5000'ish
- Add the little bit of Lap 3 --> Dollar + rollers + short hill in Tahoe City + grade up to Squaw
= Lets call it 5750

One thing with power @ that altitude is you'll want to be climbing @ at least 5% under sea level numbers AND monitor HR. I mentioned in that other thread you'll have periods of going very fast @ very low power (where the gal may be more about conservation and fueling) ... and then going very slow uphill (brockway) for an extended time (burning way more calories)

Even though the bike course will not be as difficult as previous versions one will have to be strategic where and how they apply their effort to even consider running well on that course (at 6200 feet elevation)

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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Dave, how much would you favor HR vs. power? I recently ditched my HRM...once I climb out of the off-season, I found over the years that I was using it less and less, relying only on power for the bike and pace / perceived effort for the run. But, everything I do is below 2500 ft, with only a few rides above 5000 ft per year. Do you really see value in HR for acclimating / racing at altitudes like Tahoe?

My plan is to arrive the Saturday the week before the race and spend the week acclimating and dialing in a race pace with some rough guidelines to start with (e.g., -5% NP vs. sea level). Do you think HR should be an important part of pacing or more of an "alarm"?
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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At IMLT I think HR is a better metric than usual to cross reference (similar to racing in very hot / humid weather)

If you have some HR caps to use alongside power its a great reference there since power caps should be lower @ that altitude.
* Use Firm HR Cap Climbing
* Use Firm HR Cap on the flats

I think the key places for HR their are
* Drop HR ASAP after the swim (actually have a firm control over HR during the swim and have very good swim fitness @ IMLT)
* Dollar Hill (not long but, real easy to get carried away) and the steep little ramp on the small loop around Tahoe City
* I really think on the flats their, since speed is high and effort low, HR "should" be easy to control
* The short little hills around truckee (not long or hard just enough to slow things down and like dollar easy to get carried away)
* Of course Brockway ... i think that would good to have a cap for lap 1 and a cap for lap 2

I do think you can give yourself a little HR error range because of altitude BUT man its a long 26.2 on that course (at 6200 feet) if you get it wrong.

Hope that helps

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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Since I always see people commenting on Brockway when talking about the Tahoe course I'm curious how long this climb is and what the average grade is? I recently moved to Salt Lake City so I'm definitely getting in a lot of climbing training around here. There are some seriously long and steep climbs so I'm curious if anyone knows how the climbs on the Tahoe course compares? The elevation map on the website doesn't look too dissimilar from some of the climbing I've done here, but I've learned those maps can be misleading. I'm assuming living and training here with the climbing and altitude should be a slight advantage on the Tahoe course but the horror stories I've heard leave me cautious.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [little red] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.strava.com/segments/northstar-to-brockway-summit-aka-291627

That's the last 2/3 of the climb: it starts at the big bend just before northstar. Should give you a good idea of grades. It tops out around 10 or 11% grade right before the top.
Last edited by: adamas: Apr 23, 15 13:54
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! :)
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [little red] [ In reply to ]
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4.2 miles ... i believe he avg is 6% ?? (i'm ot much for figuring % grade) But yes slightly steeper at the top

Your horror stories come fromt he original course that 2500-2750 feet more climbing ... you have an advantage where you live. That, choose correct gearing (not ego driven gearing) and you'll be in great shape

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Last edited by: Dave Latourette: Apr 23, 15 14:21
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I'm a female, so I like to think I have less ego. 😀 I ride a compact crank and 12-28 so it sounds like I should be fine. I'm not looking to set a PR on this course - I just want to enjoy the day! Thanks again!
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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Dave Latourette wrote:
4.2 miles ... i believe he avg is 6% ?? (i'm ot much for figuring % grade) But yes slightly steeper at the top

Your horror stories come fromt he original course that 2500-2750 feet more climbing ... you have an advantage where you live. That, choose correct gearing (not ego driven gearing) and you'll be in great shape

I remember like 10% at the top. And on the second lap, it sure felt even more. :)

One can get the computrainer video if one wants to train on the real course. I also have the course for the CT where I modified it for just the Martis/Brockway section. But I warn folks, even though it is a little off,
I left in the 16 and 18% grades in the martis/brockway sections to really kick my butt. One can always modify the file to make it easier if one wants to.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [little red] [ In reply to ]
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Little Red ... do you know your FTP or watts per kilo @ FTP? .... 12 x 28 is good if riding 3 watts per kilo for Brockway otherwise you need options

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [little red] [ In reply to ]
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The climb up Brockway is "tough" yes, but is not ridiculous... when viewed on its own, it is probably comparable to many climbs you can find anywhere that has real mountains. But when viewed in the context of doing it twice during an Ironman bike, then it becomes the "monster" of this course. I had trained a bit on this hill prior to race-day last year, and I actually feared the descent down Brockway much more than the climb itself; the descent is very fast, and there are some tough corners to navigate on a tri-bike at that speed. Since you "want to enjoy the day", double and triple check that your brakes are in excellent working order.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, I ride with power and know my FTP. I might think about changing for the race, I'm good with the gearing I have.
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [adamas] [ In reply to ]
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can anyone comment or compare tahoe bike route vs boulder? (last year or the current new route)
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [applefritterz] [ In reply to ]
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I actually found the Brockway decent to be really tame. No fast corners, really smooth pavement, wind resistance stops you before you get going faster than ~45. I was tucked in aero for the entire thing.

Where you REALLY REALLY need to be careful are those initial switchbacks on the legacy bike path. Very steep, very narrow, lots of loose rocks on pavement. As stated in OP, I have aluminum rims and strong brakes, very strong hands from years of MTB, and almost ate it.

Caveat: I was a downhill MTB national champion. I'm comfortable going really fast on bikes. I once "surfed" a downhill bike down brockway @ 35mph, not my brightest move
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [little red] [ In reply to ]
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a few climbs up to Alta (Little Cottonwood Canyon) should be excellent training.

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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A bit hesitant about asking, since I usually search previous ST threads and research rather than bother other people, but is LT a really tough course on the bike for a BOP triathlete? For a 45+, whose last IM bike was @7:45 with an elevation gain of 3900 ft. Most flatter IM bikes @ 7:15 to 7:25. Does LT have a high DNF rate for the bike leg? Thanks!


ETA: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; seems to consider that an additional hour added to previous IMs is typical. Would this be the same or longer for a BOP?
Last edited by: aahydraa: Aug 12, 15 20:26
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Re: 2015 IM Lake Tahoe course report [aahydraa] [ In reply to ]
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The Tahoe course has been changed considerably from year 1, much of the climbing was removed. I don't know what the little out and back is like that they added on the bike trail, but other than that it seems like now you are looking at 2 long consistent climbs of about 6 miles and 1500 vertical feet (same climb, you just do it twice) and the rest is pretty flat to downhill. I predict this year it will only be slower than most courses by a bit, maybe 15 mins FOP. The hard variables are things like uncertain weather and altitude and whether long steady climbs are good for you (bigger riders tend to like rolling courses better).
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