he was one of the top descenders in terms of time too, despite the training ride crash

balls too big

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

One thing I think doping programs need to be better at is, making stuff illegal for that which they can test for. It was during lance's early years that I think the epo (damn smart phone) stuff was illegal yet they couldn't even test for it. Sorta sets up your program to have holes in it.

But I get why they'll say Xyz is illegal yet only may be able to test for Y and Z. But I think it kinda has an empty feeling because its like its wrong but we cant test for it, so it then seems hollow, if your then "clean".

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Could mean lots of things but it sounds like "something" very benficial is out there and it may be so new its not banned yet. The WADA code bans certain classes of things though. I know there are some chambers that you get in and they can manipulate the O2 up and down, I susppose its possible that a very specific altitude type chamber could raise hemacrit up to doped levels.

Do they even have the 50% limit? If a guy shows up at 55% and no one can prove doping can he ride nowadays?

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Styrrell

Well I believe that is one of the big advantages of the Biopassport. It does not matter what drug is increasing the markers, they can catch the results of the drug.

Gene therapy

things along the lines of GW1516 and AICAR and "exercise in a pill" products currently being tested.

ETA: it's not about the supply.... it's not about the blood. Froome could have an HCT of 40% for all we know... the gene therapy and hormones are affecting the demand side, not the supply. Hormones released making you 45% mo' betta at burning fat, 50% mo' betta at glucose uptake, etc.

I think it's affecting the gross efficiency side of the equation in the kg-VO2-efficiency calculations.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Not necessarily. There is research going on to develop sythetic o2 carrying entities. Basically synthetic blood. This wouldn't show up in the bip pssport, although it would be likely easy to find once you know to start looking for it.

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Styrrell

how do you test for genes? For hormones that are currently undetectable?

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Gene doping is banned already. As for a test itsd been worked on and WADA tends not to announce new tests so they can surprise dopers. At the vary least I would think a comparison of a test from years past might reveal different genetic codes and if the new genes are put in to increase blood values that might show up in the passport.

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Styrrell

The WADA code has become a lot more sophisiticated over the years. What is banned is not just a list of substances and methods. There are "catch-all" clauses. For example, drugs not approved for human use are banned, so you cannot simply find something new that has not yet been explicitly added to the banned list. Drugs and methods that enhance oxygen transfer are banned.

This makes me a bit skeptical of the big budget teams using stuff that is technically legal. I have my doubts that anything that really is technically legal would give more than a minor performance gain. I don't see how it can explain the giant leap that Froome has undergone.

The 50% limit went out the window a long time ago. They switched to off-score, which is a formula that takes into account hemoglobin mass and reticulocytes. This is fed into the bio passport system. Supposedly an unusual value would cause the athlete's passport data to be flagged for investigation into the possibility of opening a doping case against the athlete., but Dr. Ashenden has reported that some very suspicious files were never given to the passport commitee for review.

The biopassport could detect if you changed your genes potentially.

So, start early!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Wait, wait... Are people really discussing gene therapy as a mechanism for doping? Now? Really?

Maybe in fifty years.

And even then it would be trivial to detect this. DNA sequencing, done.

How does that work? Assuming you were modified before entering the sport?

or perhaps,before conception!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

It's always going to be a huge problem to target all of your tissues with gene therapy. Viral is the way to go, somehow, but dubious it would ever (within our caring lifetime) super efficient. Sample tissue from various body parts (blood, bones, organs) and check to see that the genes are the same. By that time genome sequencing will be a lot faster/cheaper/easier than today, so it wouldn't be difficult.

Presumably, this kind of thing would involve adding a defined gene that is superior to the existing gene, say globin gene, so you could even more easily find that.

Easiest, and I use that term lightly, would be modification of very early stage embryo. We're just incredibly far from that... Ethically, technologically, etc.

How about we stop talking about doping, and start talking about how fun today was from an equipment standpoint! Ultralights and TT bikes.

Froome's bike today was a masterwork in awful. If he had put 4 spacers and gatorskins on it then he and your local dentist would have the SAME bike. Pinarello frame, Di2, SRM with Di2 11 faux chainset cover, but mated to a non-Di2 11 osymmetric chainring, clip on aero bars, AND AX lightness wheels.

What is your ruling on the Garmin-Sharp setup?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Needs an omega brake. Sheesh!

gosh!
Also, they appear to have an older version of the aerobar....or does the brezza still have the inexplicable cable routing?

They fixed that recently. That would have saved Talansky like...2 seconds.

Add the omega and you got another 5 seconds

totally changes the GC picture!

lol

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

There were a lot of variations. I was really surprised when Contador rolled up with a rear disc and a Tarmac (does Saxo not have access to the Venge?).

The Garmin set up kind of makes sense. There is no reason to have standard bars with drops. Presumably, if you are climbing you'll use the hoods or pursuit position, and if you are able to hammer you need to be on the aero bars. So the drops are just hanging down there, worthless, drag magnets.

It had to be fascinating for team mechanics weighing the pros and cons of switching a bike. It looked like it was taking anywhere from 15-30 seconds.

I'd also love to know where these setups were weight wise. Was a Pina with clips so heavy that AX Lightness had to be brought in. Did Contador just say weight be damned and throw a deep front and disc on?

Contador was on a Venge, his teammate was on a tarmack.

Perhaps he hit the minimum with Venge+404+disc?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yeah, but making something illegal w/out having a test for it sets things up for the development of a secret test with which to catch out everyone that`s been using aforementioned substance. I believe something like that happened in Athens 2004.

Lots of guys were using their drops while climbing. I'm not claiming this is faster than a TT bike, but many/most riders are more comfortable climbing with a road bike.

All Photos on cyclingnews in this article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...nce/stage-17/results












And to an earlier poster, Contador was on a Venge...

>Wait, wait... Are people really discussing gene therapy as a mechanism for doping? Now? Really?

>Maybe in fifty years.

Right now. It's already got a brand name. Already begun human testing. Already on WADA's list, and already been sought out by dirty coaches.

Yup, I was amazed at Contador chugging up the 1st climb w/ a disc. He took a calculated risk, loosing time on the climbs due to disc & on descents due to non-TT rig. While watching, it made sense, but I think he may have missed out on the stage because of that. It cuts out the stress though, of someone fluffing the change.