Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think a guy named Carlos would completely agree with you
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
echappist wrote:
flyrunride wrote:
I can't wait for the mountains to come. I wasn't expecting this but that's why Contador is always good to have in a race :)


it's not just Contador (though his racing sense is very good). It's also Bjarnes. As i said earlier, the man knows how to plan a race, whether or not you agree with his checkered past.

Recall Nick Nuyens with 2 wins in the classics in 2011 and Kreuziger with Amstel in 2013, all of them very tactical victories
In fact is this not how Valverde got dispatched in 08
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [T_rex] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
T_rex wrote:
At some point soon I think sky is going to fail froome big time. It's getting worse and worse. Today he should have had teammates to close down that gap. Plain and simple.

Froome's guys have been riding on the front for most of the last week. They are more tired than most everybody else. Not to mention that he's down two guys and one of them has a broken pelvis.

If I was the Sky DS, I would let the break go early with no hopers and tell the sprinter teams that we don't care if they gain 20 minutes. If you want a sprint you need to work. Try to take a day off before Ventoux. Similarly on Sunday, I would try to have the guys do the minimum so that they had something to use when they got to the mountain.

I also wonder if he miscalculated. He was close enough to the split that a big effort probably could have taken him across but maybe he gambled/assumed that the gap would get closed.

Either way, he's still got a nice cushion that is likely to be safe though Sunday. All he needs to do is Mark Contador and the Dutch guys. After that?

It's going to be interesting.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [T_rex] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
T_rex wrote:
That's why these guys have teams... To gain them time and protect them. With that many guys around him it's remarkable AC did any work at all.

He must not have gotten the memo back in 2009 because I see 7 other teammates here and he wasn't smart enough to stay in the back.


Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Problem is if it's a repeat of Garmin and Movistar throwing down and forcing their hand again. Sky can't let someone 5 minutes down ride away Sunday, and that puts Contador in a position to counter or get away with other climbers.

I won't be surprised if yellow changes hands Sunday.
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Carl Spackler wrote:
Problem is if it's a repeat of Garmin and Movistar throwing down and forcing their hand again. Sky can't let someone 5 minutes down ride away Sunday, and that puts Contador in a position to counter or get away with other climbers.

I won't be surprised if yellow changes hands Sunday.

If Contador goes, Mollema and Ten Dam have to go too to save their GC. If Mollema or Ten Dam go, Contador can't just let them roll either. None of the threats can be allowed up the road by anybody who's a GC favorite. I think they will let a group of guys 20' down go early in the stage and force Saxo, Astana or Belkin to make the race on Ventoux if they want to shake it up. Then if I was Froome I'd think about covering and finding an oppotunity to gain an ally to make a hard, steady effort. i.e. follow a counter by any of the top 5 guys, go hard for a bit to establish the break and then ride a steady hard effort to the finish. Get away from having to follow attack after attack all the way up. It's win, win. You protect and the guy(s) your with either move up on GC or distance those behind them. And it's steady.

Frankly though, I am not sure Contador has the gas to hurt Froome based on what I saw last week. Froome is no more tired than Contador, it's just his team.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [matto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
matto wrote:
T_rex wrote:
That's why these guys have teams... To gain them time and protect them. With that many guys around him it's remarkable AC did any work at all.


He must not have gotten the memo back in 2009 because I see 7 other teammates here and he wasn't smart enough to stay in the back.


I hope you're just kidding. I don't believe that anybody said that the GC guys don't work in the actual TTT stage. In fact, they usually work harder than anybody else on the team as they are usually the strongest. In a sense the TTT is no different than an ITT or a mountain stage. That is part of where you win or lose the Tour de France. You HAVE to work as hard as you can.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That didn't work very well today when other teams gave up. Would you roll the dice like that and hope other teams will control things? Doubtful.

I think Saxo absolutely will let Belkin roll and force Sky to chase them. Contador doesn't race for a podium and will go chips-in for all or nothing. At the Vuelta last year that's what happend to J-Rod, and nobody would help. There are 4 guys within 3 minutes and even Dan Martin is less than 6 down. Sky's best strategy is to try and ride tempo and make it hard to attack but they don't look like a team with the horsepower left to do that.

Froome might be as strong as Contador but what if Kreuzinger goes?
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
nslckevin wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Problem is if it's a repeat of Garmin and Movistar throwing down and forcing their hand again. Sky can't let someone 5 minutes down ride away Sunday, and that puts Contador in a position to counter or get away with other climbers.

I won't be surprised if yellow changes hands Sunday.

.

Frankly though, I am not sure Contador has the gas to hurt Froome based on what I saw last week. Froome is no more tired than Contador, it's just his team.

I've been thinking the same thing after he got dropped in the Pyrenees, but who knows.
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [rsseric12] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rsseric12 wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Problem is if it's a repeat of Garmin and Movistar throwing down and forcing their hand again. Sky can't let someone 5 minutes down ride away Sunday, and that puts Contador in a position to counter or get away with other climbers.

I won't be surprised if yellow changes hands Sunday.

.

Frankly though, I am not sure Contador has the gas to hurt Froome based on what I saw last week. Froome is no more tired than Contador, it's just his team.


I've been thinking the same thing after he got dropped in the Pyrenees, but who knows.

A bit more tainted meat and Contador will do fine in the Alps.

________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [AJHull] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AJHull wrote:
rsseric12 wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Problem is if it's a repeat of Garmin and Movistar throwing down and forcing their hand again. Sky can't let someone 5 minutes down ride away Sunday, and that puts Contador in a position to counter or get away with other climbers.

I won't be surprised if yellow changes hands Sunday.

.

Frankly though, I am not sure Contador has the gas to hurt Froome based on what I saw last week. Froome is no more tired than Contador, it's just his team.


I've been thinking the same thing after he got dropped in the Pyrenees, but who knows.


A bit more tainted meat and Contador will do fine in the Alps.

Once again I was thinking the same lol
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
nslckevin wrote:

I hope you're just kidding. I don't believe that anybody said that the GC guys don't work in the actual TTT stage. In fact, they usually work harder than anybody else on the team as they are usually the strongest. In a sense the TTT is no different than an ITT or a mountain stage. That is part of where you win or lose the Tour de France. You HAVE to work as hard as you can.

Of course I was being sarcastic. I'm pointing put holes in the replies here that say, "That's what teammates are for. Of course he should rest ."

What no one is articulating is why today was different than a TTT. In the sense that it was a chance to put time on his competitors it was no different.
Last edited by: matto: Jul 12, 13 21:34
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [matto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
matto wrote:
nslckevin wrote:

I hope you're just kidding. I don't believe that anybody said that the GC guys don't work in the actual TTT stage. In fact, they usually work harder than anybody else on the team as they are usually the strongest. In a sense the TTT is no different than an ITT or a mountain stage. That is part of where you win or lose the Tour de France. You HAVE to work as hard as you can.


Of course I was being sarcastic. I'm pointing put holes in the replies here that say, "That's what teammates are for. Of course he should rest ."

What no one is articulating is why today was different than a TTT. In the sense that it was a chance to put time on his competitors it was no different.

Because in the TTT Mollema or Ten Dam aren't poised to counter attack you if you dig too deep towards the end.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Carl Spackler wrote:
That didn't work very well today when other teams gave up. Would you roll the dice like that and hope other teams will control things? Doubtful.

Assuming a more normal flat stage, nobody will let a GC guy get into a break. If we have another windy day? All bets are off.

Carl Spackler wrote:
I think Saxo absolutely will let Belkin roll and force Sky to chase them. Contador doesn't race for a podium and will go chips-in for all or nothing. At the Vuelta last year that's what happend to J-Rod, and nobody would help. There are 4 guys within 3 minutes and even Dan Martin is less than 6 down. Sky's best strategy is to try and ride tempo and make it hard to attack but they don't look like a team with the horsepower left to do that.


None of those guys is going to go before Ventoux. Sky absolutely should ride hard tempo on Ventoux, but between now and the foot of that mountain they should hide as much as possible.

Carl Spackler wrote:
Froome might be as strong as Contador but what if Kreuzinger goes?

Kreuzinger was stronger than Contador on the first mountain stage. I'd be more worried about him than Contador right now. If Kreuzinger went, Froome should go with and work. Then Contador is in the sticky situation.

Froome needs to be in a position where it is safe to ride a fairly hard but STEADY pace on Ventoux. The last thing he wants is not so hard with lots of hard attacks.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tough scenario for Frome with Ten Dam and Mollema and Contador and Kreuzinger all within the danger zone. If the don't chase each other or worse yet attack together, they could put Froome on the ropes.

Not to mention that the Sky team is showing serious cracks and Saxo has yet to put Hernandez and Paulinho to work. They're not likely to let Sky dictate the pace Sunday
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Jul 12, 13 22:27
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just watched that crucial section again. I think Froome screwed the pooch. He just swung left to start a second echelon like it was no big deal. 20-20 hindsight is always easy, but I think he could have drilled it to the Contador group. I think he just chose not to.

Hats off to Saxo, Quick Step and Belkin. That was amazing racing.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I saw that too. Worse yet his entire team cracked chasing. Had he simply made a short effort and gone across it would have saved the them a lot of energy. They're going to need it.
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
London Olympics road race? Cav had it in him to bridge the gap, but effectively Team GB said he should leave it to them to close the gap. Worked out well too, didn't it? Marginal gains only work when everything goes to a tightly scripted rule book; however road racing often comes down to maximal gains and maximal losses.

Overall, big kudos to Roche, Rogers and the rest of Saxo-Tinkov for throwing their balls at Skymination, and to Cav for rubbing salt into the wound. Would never have thought that I would be rooting for a Spaniard over a Brit, or that I would find his performance more credible...

Being stuck in a back brace with 4 fractured vertebrae I was becoming quite disappointed with a processional snooze-fest, but now there's some glimmer things will become more interesting and relieve my tedium!
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Carl Spackler wrote:
Not to mention that the Sky team is showing serious cracks and Saxo has yet to put Hernandez and Paulinho to work. They're not likely to let Sky dictate the pace Sunday

Likewise Gesink. He's been hiding for two weeks. He has a "free role", meaning he can go for a win when he sees one, but from interviews i get that he's all in for the team's success now. I hope he and Laurens can tag-team up Ventoux to ride Froome and Contador ragged.

I can dream, can't I?

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [duncan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The interviews keep saying it was a spontaneous move that Contador gave the nod to. Those guys certainly are wily and will make this interesting.

I can commiserate with being in a back brace- was in one and on crutches for most of last summer. Heal up.
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [matto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
matto wrote:
Was it my imagination or was Contador not taking pulls?

It's a TTT at that point. You're putting time on the yellow jersey. Why not help out?

Or was he and I just didn't see him at the front?

I watched it live and absolutely saw Bertie pulling through. In case you don't believe me check out this shot from SRM news:



And Nicolas Roche putting down the pain:


Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Whats the chances of someone getting Quintana's wheel when he jumps tomorrow......................?
Last edited by: Kenney: Jul 13, 13 19:42
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why do I feel like I have been watching commercials on NBCSN for the past 1.5 hours......ohh that's right.....because I have been. Mont Ventoux better be worth it


Also, I don't think that commercial where Cav races the motorcycle isn't real. I think they use some computer tricks

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Turd Ferguson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Turd Ferguson wrote:
Why do I feel like I have been watching commercials on NBCSN for the past 1.5 hours......ohh that's right.....because I have been. Mont Ventoux better be worth it


Also, I don't think that commercial where Cav races the motorcycle isn't real. I think they use some computer tricks


It's bastille day. we have a frenchman out front. gonna be good.

holy fuck! a WHEELIE????

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


Last edited by: kathy_caribe: Jul 14, 13 6:39
Quote Reply
Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sagan pops a wheelie on mount ventoux, rides it one hand. the guy is great!!!!!
Quote Reply

Prev Next