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2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ...
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I was rewatching the 2013 ITU series (I know, I need a life. It was on the trainer, okay)....

Ali was coming off a minor injury and slightly under-trained. And yet he still gears up for a 10K track race. I wonder, looking back, was it a mistake?
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
I was rewatching the 2013 ITU series (I know, I need a life. It was on the trainer, okay)....

Ali was coming off a minor injury and slightly under-trained. And yet he still gears up for a 10K track race. I wonder, looking back, was it a mistake?

Probably yes, I wonder how well he's coming back from his op he's not putting much info out.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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His mentality is the reason why he's the best. To many of us the answer is that it may have been a mistake... but he will risk it more than anyone else and thats why he's double olympic champion.

I think his time in triathlon may becoming to end soon. His move to long course is a way to find a new challenge but I would be surprised if he's still competing by 2020

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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I think a lot will depend on how he trains for long course. If he doesn’t modify his training right he may injure himself out of racing. However, if he gets beat a few times at 70.3 I see him sticking with it since he pretty much is only okay with winning or the hospital. There’s no inbetween.

Also it depends what he wants to be the best overall triathlete that has raced or the best short course. He can’t really go out as best of all time without winning at the 70.3 and 140.6 level. But there wouldn’t be much of an argument for best oly distance racer, besides Gomez. Which is an interesting debate in itself.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Agree 100%.

In the recent documentary before Rio, the question comes up about his training and "would it better for him to not train so hard and win more world championships"... and says that Gomez's skill is to be consistent with winning more world titles than brownlee. But Browlee's response was pretty interesting, that if he didn't train the way he does he would't be an olympic champion. Train to be consistent vs train to be Olympic champion? Plus we have NO idea if there is any difference between Brownlee and Gomez in training, i just thought the comment was interesting.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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I’m guessing the training is different. For one, Gomez I read in one article takes a full month off after the season and does absolutely no training just to recover. The odds of Alistair doing that seem to be 0 percent unless it’s due to surgery.

He also does longer races a bit more constistently and although at their level the training isn’t that much different my guess is he does a few more longer rides and runs than Alistair to stay competitive at that level.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
His mentality is the reason why he's the best. To many of us the answer is that it may have been a mistake... but he will risk it more than anyone else and thats why he's double olympic champion.

I think his time in triathlon may becoming to end soon. His move to long course is a way to find a new challenge but I would be surprised if he's still competing by 2020

There is an interesting interview with dan larang on real coaching podcast. He is Frodo’s coach for LD.

Basically he was saying that injury risk would be a lot lower at IM. Also said that one of the most important things to do when you transition is to find or create a new “team” of training partners.

I would think that the toughest challenge for AB or JG would be going from one day where you have federation support and a lot of great training partners, to the next where you are basically slogging it out slow(er) 30 hours a week on your own.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an Oregon boy at heart and I can see a lot of parallels between Alistair and Pre as far as racing style and training style. Alistair trains to be a champion champion and nothing else. With that being said I don't feel like a transition to 70.3 would suit him well. An increase in mileage + relentless training style could be recipe for disaster.

His 28:32 in the 10k was amazing...I'm betting he would have ran it faster in a Speedo and shades (+/- visor).
Last edited by: chicoxcrunner: Dec 7, 17 15:07
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [chicoxcrunner] [ In reply to ]
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The increase in mileage/hours from ITU to 70.3 is negligible for these guys. It’s just a slight change in pace and a few more long rides/runs.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I would argue that for someone who has a history of injuries that the increase in racing mileage would be a concern.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [chicoxcrunner] [ In reply to ]
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chicoxcrunner wrote:
I'm an Oregon boy at heart and I can see a lot of parallels between Alistair and Pre as far as racing style and training style. Alistair trains to be a champion champion and nothing else. With that being said I don't feel like a transition to 70.3 would suit him well. An increase in mileage + relentless training style could be recipe for disaster.


I don't know, LS smashes it all the time and he hasn't been gimped up. Now, maybe what they can take is different, but maybe AB goes balls out and is able to sustain it. That'd be scary news for every other pro.

Just so many variables in a person's makeup/life to say "he trains too hard to last long", when while history shows he has issues, we don't know the nuances to why that is.
Last edited by: Culley22: Dec 7, 17 15:40
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say itu style training, with its higher intensity, would make someone more injury prone.

If you read the Brownlee brother's book, their intense run sessions are often much harder and shorter than their rivals from what they state. The session they mention is 6 x 800m with the pace being something like 10 secs per 400m faster than their 10k pace. I can't quite remember the recovery but it might have been something like 200m easy? That's a pretty intense session.

Alistair was still riding around 17-18 hours per week in itu.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe Ali comes back from this latest operation less injury prone, scary thought!

Is everyone aware he's been put in the 2018 England Commenwealth games squad? Meaning theres a chance long course (certainly full distance) goes on hold.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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I really hope AB just forgets about going long and sticks to ITU. The fast, cut and thrust of the short stuff just seems to suit him, and a shot at a 3rd Gold in Tokyo would be great to watch. The only ITU race I watched last year was Leeds, just to watch him tear it up. Maybe he can win Kona, maybe he can't, but I don't think it would be anywhere near as interesting as watching him go for Gold in Tokyo.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
The increase in mileage/hours from ITU to 70.3 is negligible for these guys. It’s just a slight change in pace and a few more long rides/runs.

the disrespect that ITU athletes get and reverence that long-course athletes get here blows my mind.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
chicoxcrunner wrote:
I'm an Oregon boy at heart and I can see a lot of parallels between Alistair and Pre as far as racing style and training style. Alistair trains to be a champion champion and nothing else. With that being said I don't feel like a transition to 70.3 would suit him well. An increase in mileage + relentless training style could be recipe for disaster.


I don't know, LS smashes it all the time and he hasn't been gimped up. Now, maybe what they can take is different, but maybe AB goes balls out and is able to sustain it. That'd be scary news for every other pro.

Just so many variables in a person's makeup/life to say "he trains too hard to last long", when while history shows he has issues, we don't know the nuances to why that is.

I don’t think that’s really a valid comparison yet. Alistair has been racing at the world level over 10 years, and at the national level before that. Sanders has done 3 years or so of major training. If Lionel is still kicking around fine in another 10 years sure, but looking at his death gait at Hawaii it’s hard to believe he won’t have issues at some point because of it.

Don’t get me wrong, Alistair’s body could 100 percent just be a delicate flower, but he has way more miles in his legs than Sanders and that by itself can cause some of the problems. He also has a running issue it’s just different than Sanders, he runs forefoot, and that has possibly contributed to his issues over the long term.

It already should be scary for the pros you have Gomez coming into 70.3 who can win worlds doing ITU training, stack a healthy Alistair and Jonny in a few years and it could be a hell of a shootout. Especially if they all do Hawaii.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't even talk about the injury status, I almost think that's a given because what your talking about is an complete overhaul of his mind/thinking around training. You don't go from being "injury prone" to not injury prone without an complete overhaul of your training process. So I would more simply just go with it for Ali. His process got him to 2 olympic medals. Now I'm sure because of this type of injury it may force him to change, but I wouldn't count on it.

ETA: This is more to say, that I dont think you can change Ali, and that's what makes him so special to winning back to back gold medals. So I think you take the really really great with the chance that it causes X niggle injury and Y injury but for the most part when he's had to be on, he's been on.

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Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 8, 17 7:22
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [chicoxcrunner] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of professionals say they decrease their volume when transitioning from ITU to long course.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [onceatriathlet3] [ In reply to ]
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Hard to see Alistair doing Hawaii. His gameplan was always 2 years of LC after Rio then make a call on Tokyo, saying that he would need a 2 year run into Tokyo.

That was immediately after Tokyo and at the time he was probably undecided; I suspect the addition of the relay to Tokyo - another medal shot plus racing to get his brother a Gold as well will be a massive pull for him and he won't be able to resist.

That leaves next year, I can see some mix and match, 70.3's and some target ITU races but without the long course focus he was originally intending. It will be a 'recovery' year from a serious injury and he'll want to learn enough to know he can still cut it at ITU before committing to the two year cycle.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
The increase in mileage/hours from ITU to 70.3 is negligible for these guys. It’s just a slight change in pace and a few more long rides/runs.

the disrespect that ITU athletes get and reverence that long-course athletes get here blows my mind.

It’s remarkable. Better than 10 years ago, but still you’d think they were doing all their training stopping at coffee shops in the middle of it based on some comments.

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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
The increase in mileage/hours from ITU to 70.3 is negligible for these guys. It’s just a slight change in pace and a few more long rides/runs.

the disrespect that ITU athletes get and reverence that long-course athletes get here blows my mind.

It’s remarkable. Better than 10 years ago, but still you’d think they were doing all their training stopping at coffee shops in the middle of it based on some comments.

Funny you should say that cos I think that’s exactly what Brownlees do on long rides when you read their book follow them on Twitter etc
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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And the reason he is only two times world champion. You have to choose your poision.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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According to Javier he has learned to never give 100% during training but just go 99% (or whatever). It is that final 1% that will keep braking you down, yet the yield of the training session is almost the same.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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It does seem like that, but when I read their book what I took out of it was that yes, about 80-85% is coffee rides or stopping for cake, but that last 15-20% is at efforts that require the rest to be coffee/recovery rides. Same with running. Seems like they do a ton of easy/trail jogs, and then the last 10% are track sessions at incredibly high efforts.
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Re: 2013 10k, Ali Brownlee ... [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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what documentary?
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