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2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3
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Hi all, have been doing tri's for the past 2 years (sprint and oly), and am looking to upgrade from my 1993 Giant Kronos. (yes you read that correctly) I've put a little money into the Giant to adapt it to tri's (pursuit bars, aero bars, relocated shifters, seatpost that can be flipped, new wheels, etc.) but would prefer not to put anymore money into it. Quite frankly the bike is a bit big for me as well, so really hoping to get a better fit. I'm debating what to do for a used bike and am fairly intrigued by the 2008 Litespeed Saber. I really kind of like the uniqueness, as well the qualities of Ti, but it seems for about the same price ($1500 - $2000), I can find something like a 2010 Cervelo P3. Both bikes are similarly equipped, Saber with Dura-Ace 7800, P3 with Ultegra. I've done a ton of reading around pros and cons of the different materials but I'm curious around everyone's opinions on race day performance between these two bikes (or other similar used CF's). Does one really offer a significant aero advantage over the other, or with the same wheels and rider, would the perform very similarly? I've obviously read what people think around ride quality of one material vs the other, I'm really more curious if I would be putting myself at a disadvantage by riding something like the Saber (again, really like the looks, uniqueness, and implied durability).

I'm ~6'-2" 165lbs so I'm looking at 57-58cm. I am by no means going to be a pro and simply want to be proud of my performance. I haven't really seen any recent threads on this topic so was curious on everyone's updated views.

Thanks so much for everyone's input!
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a bit surprised, no Ti supporters out there? No CF supporters saying they wouldn't waste their money?

As I've been reading at which speeds you really gain from the Aero design, and the relatively minor difference in weight of the two, I'm not thinking I'm going to lose much if anything by riding the Saber. Looks like I'll just have to see the what type of shape the Saber frame is in.

Any recommendations for a good LBS in the KC area for fitting? Was thinking of hitting up a Retul fitter prior to buying a used bike...
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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tthensley wrote:
As I've been reading at which speeds you really gain from the Aero design,

You can equal advantage from aerodynamics at all cycling speeds, slow or fast.

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and the relatively minor difference in weight of the two, I'm not thinking I'm going to lose much if anything by riding the Saber.

You will lose on the order of a minute of time per 40k of distance by riding the Saber. More if it is windy.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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My first tri bike was a 1996 Lightspeed Tachyon, and I followed that up with a 2009 Cervelo P3. Both were built with Dura-Ace. The Tachyon had 650c wheels and I had/have a HED Disc and Jet front wheels for it. I rode the P3 with a few different wheels including a H3 rear and Alps front.

The Tachyon was a great bike, it went pretty fast for me, and I didn't feel or see a huge difference when I switched to the P3. A few psi different tire pressure and/or different tires/wheels would probably 'feel' a lot more different than different frames.

I would think you could get the Saber for a lot less than the P3, just from the demand aspect, people just aren't into ti anymore.

Let me know if you are interested in a 09, 54cm P3 w/Dura-Ace. I still have mine and am looking to sell it. I got an Orbea Ordu a couple years ago, and just haven't gotten around to selling the P3 yet.

.
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, in the early 2000s Ti was the shit for a while. Now, not so much

I am selling a 2008 Saber frame in the classifieds :)
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
A few psi different tire pressure and/or different tires/wheels would probably 'feel' a lot more different than different frames.


Assuming optimum crr was at 120psi for a given setup and road, you would need to inflate to around 160psi to give yourself a 1 minute penalty, or way way under 80 psi.

Good tires can easily save a minute over bad tires. But you could also run the faster frame AND the good tires.

I have crazy ideas.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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I have owned tons of ti in my day from Litespeed to Merlin to Spectrum. Loved 'em all. My fav was one of the first 5 Tachyons rolled off the line in Chatt just punch myself to this day for selling it. So, won't find a bigger ti lover than me on this board.

That said there is a penalty with the frame compared to what's out there today. You just gotta weigh if a minute on a 40k is worth it to you and for many here it is indeed. That said if you are going to treat a slick tt frame like a ton of triathletes do by hanging a Mini Mart feed station off it with 8 gallons of water and toys then get some ti under ya!
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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I have only test ridden a P3 [nice TT bike] and never tried a Saber [but I have a Lynskey Ti road bike and love the ride], if I were in your shoes, the Saber would be my 1st choice.
Aero qualities are very similar with a small edge going to Cervelo, ride quality would be advantage Litespeed.
Make sure the bike you get fits.

res, non verba
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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I love ti, but there is no comparing those two frames. On a road bike I would ride ti in an eye blink, but you will be giving up substantial aero benefits that the p3 provides. Ti is still cool, and that frame is pretty in its own way.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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tthensley wrote:
I'm a bit surprised, no Ti supporters out there? No CF supporters saying they wouldn't waste their money?

As I've been reading at which speeds you really gain from the Aero design, and the relatively minor difference in weight of the two, I'm not thinking I'm going to lose much if anything by riding the Saber. Looks like I'll just have to see the what type of shape the Saber frame is in.

Any recommendations for a good LBS in the KC area for fitting? Was thinking of hitting up a Retul fitter prior to buying a used bike...

This is sorta old, so I hope you found a solution already. But if you still need a KC-area RETUL fitter, Jeff Williams at Elite Cycling is great. Oh, and as for the bikes, I'd recommend... both! I bought a P3 last year, but I can't bring myself to sell my '08 Saber. Thinking about converting it to a road bike...

http://www.extramilenutrition.com
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [tthensley] [ In reply to ]
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I used to get a new bike every two years. Then I got a 2009 Saber which I am still riding. I no longer have a desire to get a new bike, and don't think I will anytime soon. All the super bikes are flavors of the week, in two years they're old news and your eyes will wander. Not so with the Saber. At least not for me. And I don't think anyone ever passed me in a race because his bike was faster.
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Re: 2008 Ti Saber vs. 2010 CF P3 [greenjp] [ In reply to ]
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Everybody gave me great feedback, thanks so much! At the end of the day, based on what was out there, I ended up with a 2011 TREK SC 7.0. It's in great shape and I thought it was a good deal at $1200. I still love the looks of the Saber's and may likely get one to convert to road as several have mentioned.

I ended up getting the Retul fit here in Des Moines, IA from Zoom Performance, Bill Hardin has been great to work with there and is extremely knowledgeable. I had called Elite as I was going to be in KC, but couldn't get the scheduling worked out...

Thanks again for the great advice and input from everyone!
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