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1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36
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So in 2015, after a disc injury, I basically turned into a 100% swimmer with some lame, not so good attempts at getting back into riding and running. It took me a while to get over the lack of riding and running (especially riding as I still really miss it) but today, I am a swimmer first perhaps with a sliver of hope to get back into bike touring in the Alps. But I'm the guy at the dolphin tank every day all year. At my local pool, they may as well add me to the infrastructure.

In any case I started off 2016 working mainly on my freestyle using it is an opportunity for a swim focus with a hope of becoming some type of FOP swim dude when I got back into tris. Eventually I realized that I would just be frustrating myself, thinking about swimming for triathlon vs swimming for swimming.

It was at that point in April 2016, that I decided I needed to learn to swim like a swimmer. I wanted to improve EVERTHING...kick, all 4 strokes, learning how to kick dolphin and all the zillion variations and subtleties. This process is not new to me. I'd applied it learning how to play many sports from baseball, to tennis to XC skiing. Basically becoming a student of the sport.

OK, so I was watching replays of the London Olympics and the 400IM and 200IM. Those guys are beyond awesome. I NEEDED to learn how to do the fly. So here I was was unable to do barely 4 strokes due to neck and shoulder limitations from many crashes, but dammit I was going to learn.

Fortunately, I am blessed with a decent size engine, which helps (the high cost of good form as Slowman once wrote) and an insanely high tolerance for repetition (most of us have that). I think it was around end of May 2016, when I managed my first 25m fly. Bascially after that, I was so gassed that I thought that I would have to pack in the workout.

By June 2016, I managed a single 50m fly in a long course pool on a biz trip in Frankfurt. But it was all flailing and my timing was wrong. By the fall, even with bad timing, bad streamline, bad catch, terrible kick, poor core mobility, I got up to a set of 4x100m as 50m fly and 50m free. But I really sucked, but dammit, I was going to suck less. Mainly because my mobility on land was bad, doing this in the pool made me feel superman-ish in a middle aged age group ex triathlete way....and I was getting a six pack along the way.

On Dec 30th 2016, I did my first 1200 km year of swimming. The mileage had turned into my goal to basically average 100km per month. On Jan 1, I said, OK enough of that, this year, I need to stop worrying about a runner style mileage goal and really get better at all 4 strokes.

By early Feb of this year, I had gotten up to a set of 8x100m as 50/50 fly free. I started getting this crazy idea of "what if I could do a set 2x400m as fly-free". So I worked up to single 400m. By some time in mid Feb it turned to 2x400m. During that second one, I thought, "dammit" I think I could do an entire kilometer of this.

Big mistake....well kind of.

At the end of Feb, I attempted the 1000m as 50/50. I have done a ton of difficult endurance things in my life, but this was the single most difficult "race" I had ever done. Sometime between leg 7 and 9, it literally felt like I would pass out but I kept at it. At the end of the entire thing, I my time was 18:34.....based on my splits in the intervals, I THOUGHT I would have not problem going sub 18, but I totally fell apart.

At that point, I was excited about my "accomplishment" being the 50-54 world champion in an event with one athlete, but I was not happy with my pacing. I overcooked the first part, like any stupid 18 year old in a 5K road race.

So I said, that's it, I am not coming back to this till I can break 18 minutes.

But honestly I got scared to try it again. The pain was too much.

I gave myself the excuse to work on my technique for this....everything from getting my timing down, my streamline, my dive into the water, managing effort from my pull vs /core legs and lastly my underwater dolphin kick.....the latter was pathetic. I could barely make it past the flags. It's not that my core muscles were/are weak, my timing was way off.

In any case, I decided that every swim, regardless of stroke, I would start off each wall with 8-10 hard dolphin kicks. This made every workout harder than it should be,but thanks to the inputs of many on the fish threads like Jasoninhalifax and others, I was getting really strong. Not surprisingly my swim workouts were turning into more like core and leg workouts than upper body in many ways.

Also back at home to "train" for the event, I started doing set of 20 lat pull downs with 80-90% of body weight to mimic the 20-24 strokes of fly per 50M (scm). Also I started doing leg extensions, also 20-30 at 80-100% body weight again to mimic the number of second hard kicks while doing fly.

In November I started realizing that I was giving myself excuses for not trying the 1000m again, but I kept giving myself excuses. In November I decided to focus on my dolphin kick some more and try to get the 25m across the pool. I could do it with fins on, but was unsure without fins.

It literally took me less than week once I tried to make it the full 25m after a short rest from what I was doing. I felt this was my big sporting achievement for the year. Now I could hold my own with any "real fish" sprinting underwater for 25m...the same guy who could barely do 7m at the start of the year.

All the time, I was not timing anything just going by feel. I timed a few sets of 400m fly free and noticed I was consistently under 7 minutes often down closer to 6:40 on some days. I started feeling confidence that I would break 18 minutes now, if I just paced it out.

Anyway, yesterday I was going to hit 1200km of swimming for the year and it was 1000 km since my first crack at it. At this point many aspects of my swimming look like a 'real swimmer'. Even my breast stroke is getting decent.....my back stroke still sucks.

So I arrived at 1199 km for the year (not that my compulsive self is not counting LOL) and the time was "up". I had to do the 1000m whether I liked it or not.

So off I went. I came through 100m in 1:40 and thought the pace was too hot, so unlike my spring attempt, I started dogging it in some ways. For the fly I chose to breath every second stroke, as I get more power from my pull and save my legs. For the free, for one length I breathed every hand entry to "catch up" on oxygen. For the second 25, I breathed on right hand entry. I went through 400m at 6:58 comfortably, which put me on pace for 17:30.

All my work on the under water dolphin streamline was helping me above water for both strokes. I was able to keep my body tight and streamlines trying to emulate a torpedo. I was waiting for the hammer to fall between legs 7 and 9 and while it kind of did, it never buried me. I fell a few second off pace on each of the last few legs before the sprint home.

Final time was 17:36. I took 58 seconds off my time since the spring. 1000km of swimming to make a 5% difference, but I guess that is what it takes, and it was worth every meter in the pool. The dolphin tank has been my zen zone in an otherwise insanely miserable year.

I realize this "report" is long, but wanted to share the evolution of the pieces of the puzzle from triathlete guy to swimmer butterfly guy.

Finally I would like to add, that I had a really good starting point to get into fly....XC skiing double poling is actually the same core motion as the second kick part of fly, so I already had the timing for that down on land, I just needed to transfer it into water.

Also I have always had an aptitude to pick up new sports on land. Ever since I was a kid, I could pick up a new sport and get reasonably proficient really fast. But swimming, OH MAN, I could never get it, but I THINK after all these meters, I am getting there. Real swimmers ask me what my event is and what team I swim for. I THINK that qualifies me as a real fish now.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 16, 17 7:39
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Nice job. Fly is the one stroke I never learned, which is probably why my daughter is a Sprint fly swimmer (brag: sub-25 second 50 yard fly). Kids always have to do something different from their parents.

Fly seems to be so much technique. There is this old guy at our pool that will swim nothing but fly for a good hour. It is super slow, but he clicks off 500 after 500 like the rest of us crappy swimmers swim free.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Enjoyed your training/race report and congrats! Glad to hear you are able to keep the competitive juices flowing despite your medical issues.

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Blog: https://swimbikerunrinserepeat.wordpress.com
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Great job Dev!!! So, now you need to do a 1000 scm free TT and see how much your free has improved as a result of all your training. I'm predicting sub-15??? And, how do your current free times compare to your best times in your 20s and 30s???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Local squad coach thinks fly is the easiest stroke a lot of his athletes make it look easy. I guess once you nail the timing there's not that much to the stroke.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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I think that technically fly is easiest once you get the timing and provided you have enough fitness to do it. If I can get the kick down for breast stroke, I think it will be equally "easy" to get the timing and get better. I find free and back to be much more complicated since half your body is doing the opposite of the other half and you have to work breathing in for free. For fly, breathing timing is dead easy once the rest of the body is moving correctly.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Eric, I don't think my free will be 'that much faster'. Due to my disc issue, I have a mini spasm with my left leg when I go to breath left and it kind of opens up a bit of a parachute. Nevertheless with my streamline better overall and my catch and kick all stronger, maybe I can get close to 15. Also keep in mind I am doing open turns due to my disc issue.

I would like to keep improving my back and breast stroke and eventually go into a 400IM, 200IM, 200 fly, 100 fly and 400 free in a masters meet. I have not gone in a sports competition since IM Lake Tahoe 2015, so maybe next year or the year after to join a masters meet. But I have to be able to safely dive and get back to flip turns or I am kind of just wasting time. Maybe I can do the swim leg in a relay in a tri next year. I am not sure I can handle doing just that, so may be better to focus on just swim related events....for now my own self generated events.

By the way, I THINK I made a breakthrough in my underwater dolphin kick today. My hips are pretty wide and my natural stance is to have feet apart a bit while standing. Today i focused on keep feet and knees together and I just noticed a lot more power....probably better streamline too. 25m undewater dolphin went from, "I will only try this once per workout" to, "well that was hard, but not insane".
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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This excellent, and more than a little inspirational.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of questions/comments:

1. Could you just breath on your right, e.g. would that avoid the mini-spasm issue???
2. Have you tried to do a flip turn since the bad crash??? Did you do them before???
3. Regarding the masters meet, I'd stick with 200 Fly, 400 IM, 400 Free, and 800 or 1500 free if they have one. Those 5 events are the least popular events at Masters meets so you'll have a better shot at placing top three in your AG. Too many fast guys swim 100 fly and 200 IM. :)
4. As for "self-generated events", I'd stick with something that there are actually yardstick standards to compare your results to, i.e., basically the swim meet events. No one really knows what to think about the 1000 m alternating 50 free and 50 fly. Not meaning to seem critical but rather if you time yourself for a 200 fly or 400 free, then you can compare that to what other 50-54 men in Canada, the U.S., and in the whole world have done. Personally, i like being able to see how i compare to other swimmers in my AG, but that's just me. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely love this.

As another clapped out triathlete/runner turned swimmer, I really admire your diligent attention to the small refinements and improvements.

I wish I had thought about 1200km for the year several months ago. I have tapered off my mileage since July and will hit 1100 km next week. I very much doubt I'll have a swimming year like 2017 again.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [satanellus] [ In reply to ]
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satanellus wrote:
Absolutely love this.

As another clapped out triathlete/runner turned swimmer, I really admire your diligent attention to the small refinements and improvements.

I wish I had thought about 1200km for the year several months ago. I have tapered off my mileage since July and will hit 1100 km next week. I very much doubt I'll have a swimming year like 2017 again.

The whole idea of 1200km was loosely born in Jan 2016 when I did my first 100K month ever. Put it into context my previous tri years were barely 200K-300K for the entire year. After that, I tried to hit 100K for Feb 2016, but with 29 days, vs 31 I missed and kind of gave up but just swam every day. Then around mid Oct 2016, I realized that if I did 120-130K per month, I could finish that year with 1200K, so I went on a mission and got it done on Dec 30th. There were 3 closed days in December, so I needed a bunch of 5-7K days vs my standard 3-4K day. In any case it felt like a fun achievement, but the last two months, I found myself doing less kick, less drills and less breast stroke and back because it was "so slow" and I could not log enough mileage. The entire quest for mileage got stupid, and when Jan 1 came, I decided that I needed to focus on technical aspects and forget about distance. What ended up happening instead was as I got into the technical aspects more and more, I got sucked in to spending more and more time at the pool trying to solve these swimmer puzzles. For swimmers it is natural....for us land mammals its' like making the cheetah sprint into the water and asking the cheetah to keep up the dolphins....it just does not work. Mainly I found myself falling into that intoxication I would get endlessly serving up tennis balls, or practicing various soccer kicks. I could do that for hours as a kid and not get bored, so there I was doing the same in the pool. I realized it was something that I missed during my time doing triathlon (whoever, I would do the same technically on XC skis every winter).

In any case, the goal this year was to acquire some more technical skills and refine them. The mileage was an outcome of that. Last year, I sacrificed technical for mileage. That was somewhere stupid, but in fairness, I did try to work on skills too.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
A couple of questions/comments:

1. Could you just breath on your right, e.g. would that avoid the mini-spasm issue???
2. Have you tried to do a flip turn since the bad crash??? Did you do them before???
3. Regarding the masters meet, I'd stick with 200 Fly, 400 IM, 400 Free, and 800 or 1500 free if they have one. Those 5 events are the least popular events at Masters meets so you'll have a better shot at placing top three in your AG. Too many fast guys swim 100 fly and 200 IM. :)
4. As for "self-generated events", I'd stick with something that there are actually yardstick standards to compare your results to, i.e., basically the swim meet events. No one really knows what to think about the 1000 m alternating 50 free and 50 fly. Not meaning to seem critical but rather if you time yourself for a 200 fly or 400 free, then you can compare that to what other 50-54 men in Canada, the U.S., and in the whole world have done. Personally, i like being able to see how i compare to other swimmers in my AG, but that's just me. :)


I definitely get doing conventional stuff to compare up against what others do. However, it's like the trail runner, who picks out a completely new route and then breaks trail and then times himself on that when no one else is doing that, just because its a personal challenge more than a race against what others do. I am not averse to racing others (after all, I did 31 IM's, ~ 100 half IMs, 20 open marathons etc etc), but I would always make up "self timed" training events. I used to do this one TT on XC skis that started with a 600 ft vertical climb at around 10-20% grade and then the second "half" was a bunch of rollers and technical downhills just when you were wobbling and anaerobic. No one would ever TT that route until I started to TT it and then I got a bunch of people on board.....then I designed a 100K XC ski "race" that included that TT segment and more 4 times for a total of 6400 ft of vertical and I got 50 people out to go do it.

So I do get doing standard events, but I also like creating new ones. Some others will dive in and try. Most people will stick to conventional stuff and that's OK too. I am just wired to try different things than mainstream too. Anyone who has come to my Epicman training camps in Tremblant and Lake Placid has experienced the madness and they 'get the mindset'.

In any case, I would like to work on back and breast and then put it together to do 200IM and 400IM. I am not there yet. Breast is a bit tricky with the spasm issue. I THINK once I have my disc surgery, I'll be set for all strokes.

As for breathing only on my right side, yes it is better, but left side is my "normal side". Left side is getting better too. I need to get someone to video me doing back stroke as I have no idea why it is so bad relative to the others. I wish i could ask for advice over the internet, but not sure what exactly I am doing wrong and where my hips and legs are in the water. Meanwhile if I just kick on my back, I am fine and move pretty good.

Also I would not really care if I was last place in the 100 fly and 200IM in a meet. I would still like to do them because I think those are cool events.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 16, 17 18:25
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Eric, I also left out of my report, one thing that you brought up about Tom Dolan's "1 kick fly" from his 400 IM days and you mentioning that the tradeoff there was speed vs oxygen utilization. So other than my single hard kick for my breath stroke, for the other three (I was breathing alternate strokes), I was just trying to do a low amplitude undulation with more core and pulling hard, but with the legs generally just trying to keep them high and streamlined and out of the way of creating drag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT8k9t2BF_g
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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1. When are you having disc surgery??? How long out of the water???
2. Regarding backstroke, have you tried swimming this stroke with paddles??? I like this as a good way to get the feel of the best way to pull backstroke. Mostly i don't use the pull buoy but rather just keep my kick going normally. Once you get the pull down, back is a very relaxing stroke, at least IME/IMO.
3. Understand about wanting to swim the "cool events", 100 fly and 200 IM. :)
4. Love that '00 Dolan video. Since you're really into swimming now, have you read "Gold in the Water" by P.H. Mullen???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
1. When are you having disc surgery??? How long out of the water???
2. Regarding backstroke, have you tried swimming this stroke with paddles??? I like this as a good way to get the feel of the best way to pull backstroke. Mostly i don't use the pull buoy but rather just keep my kick going normally. Once you get the pull down, back is a very relaxing stroke, at least IME/IMO.
3. Understand about wanting to swim the "cool events", 100 fly and 200 IM. :)
4. Love that '00 Dolan video. Since you're really into swimming now, have you read "Gold in the Water" by P.H. Mullen???

Under the Canadian McCommunist medical system, I don't have a date yet, but I expect 4-6 weeks out of the water for the incision area to completely heal before monkeying around. I will try back with paddles tomorrow. I have not tried in some time. I did not know of the book by PH Mullen, but just started reading about it being set at the Santa Clara swim club. It was actually last year in 2016, when I got into swimming that I did a few 6K swim sessions at the Santa Clara club while I was there for business. While swimming at the pool and seeing the plaques of Mark Spitz (who trained there before going to Indiana), I actually got this spark to try to learn the other strokes.

In the back of my mind, I knew I had a biz trip to Munich in Sept of 2016 and I imagined swimming in Mark Spitz's lane in Munich and doing all 4 strokes. Fast forward 6 months and I was in Munich and doing exactly that...in Mark Spitz's lane !!!








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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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VERY COOL about swimming in Spitz's lane!!! Regarding "Gold in the Water", just an abso great book!!! The reason i brought it up is that in the 200 IM in that same 2000 Oly, Dolan finished 2nd and Tom Wilkens, a relative unknown, finished 3rd. Wilkens walked on to the Stanford swimming team in his freshman year, and swam well enough to stay on the team. After college, he kept swimming and went to Santa Clara to train; he is one of the 7-8 swimmers that Mullen follows during their '99-'00 training for the '00 Trials. IIRC, Wilkens is the only swimmer from that group to actually make the team, and he made it in the 200 Br as well as 200 IM, but only medaled in the IM. Anyway, your posting of the Dolan video plus your like for the 200 IM reminded me of this book, and the story of Tom Wilkens.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Right now my favorite "go to" set is 5x200m "modified IM" (as 50 fly, 25 back, 25 breast, 100 free)....kind of a triathlete's version. By next year, I'd like that to be a regular swimmer set with 50m of each stroke. Maybe if I do them with paddles, the middle legs won't feel like they go on forever in slow motion.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Eric, I have one more question and you can a likely help. On yesterday's swim after lane swim ends, there is a public swim and I stay behind and work on my underwater dolphin kick (widths) and swim back breast stroke for recovery and work on that technique. In any case, I look at the bottom of the pool and try to watch it go by and work on different parts of the kick (either harder flex from the core, more quad push, more upper back and hamstring "lift", low amplitude, high amplitude, low frequency, high frequency and try to watch what makes me go faster.

Yesterday, I tried kicking hard low amplitude with knees and feet touching. My natural stance is feet apart as I have very wide hip bone structure, but I found the feet together I generated more power. I "THINK" it is actually better streamline, so then I went to the shallow end and tried a full 25m with my feet together and doing a length felt a lot more "easy" (it never is, it was just better). Should I also keep my knees and feet together doing fly? I will try today. It feels very unnatural for me, but if it is faster that's the cost of better form.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Eric, I have one more question and you can a likely help. On yesterday's swim after lane swim ends, there is a public swim and I stay behind and work on my underwater dolphin kick (widths) and swim back breast stroke for recovery and work on that technique. In any case, I look at the bottom of the pool and try to watch it go by and work on different parts of the kick (either harder flex from the core, more quad push, more upper back and hamstring "lift", low amplitude, high amplitude, low frequency, high frequency and try to watch what makes me go faster.
Yesterday, I tried kicking hard low amplitude with knees and feet touching. My natural stance is feet apart as I have very wide hip bone structure, but I found the feet together I generated more power. I "THINK" it is actually better streamline, so then I went to the shallow end and tried a full 25m with my feet together and doing a length felt a lot more "easy" (it never is, it was just better). Should I also keep my knees and feet together doing fly? I will try today. It feels very unnatural for me, but if it is faster that's the cost of better form.

I think it depends on the swimmer but i've never heard any coach emphasize trying to press your legs together as i think that is kind of a waste of energy. I think this is kind of analogous to the "keeping your fingers together on your pull" debate, the general consensus being that spending the energy to keep those fingers truly together is not the best way to use that energy. I *think* maybe you were just hitting a good feel for your kick using that new trick but it might not last. Sometimes this happens when we are working out exactly how to do a new thing in the pool.

I looked on the web briefly and found this video from a top U of FL backstroker on underwater dolphin. You'll notice his legs and feet are not pressed together per se except his toes are quite close together. Keeping your toes close enough such that your big toes are rubbing a good bit during your kicking is the one thing i have heard coaches emphasize. If you can "pigeon toe" your feet while kicking, this is considered the ideal. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGRl0k2qvhY


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
satanellus wrote:
Absolutely love this.

As another clapped out triathlete/runner turned swimmer, I really admire your diligent attention to the small refinements and improvements.

I wish I had thought about 1200km for the year several months ago. I have tapered off my mileage since July and will hit 1100 km next week. I very much doubt I'll have a swimming year like 2017 again.


The whole idea of 1200km was loosely born in Jan 2016 when I did my first 100K month ever. Put it into context my previous tri years were barely 200K-300K for the entire year. After that, I tried to hit 100K for Feb 2016, but with 29 days, vs 31 I missed and kind of gave up but just swam every day. Then around mid Oct 2016, I realized that if I did 120-130K per month, I could finish that year with 1200K, so I went on a mission and got it done on Dec 30th. There were 3 closed days in December, so I needed a bunch of 5-7K days vs my standard 3-4K day. In any case it felt like a fun achievement, but the last two months, I found myself doing less kick, less drills and less breast stroke and back because it was "so slow" and I could not log enough mileage. The entire quest for mileage got stupid, and when Jan 1 came, I decided that I needed to focus on technical aspects and forget about distance. What ended up happening instead was as I got into the technical aspects more and more, I got sucked in to spending more and more time at the pool trying to solve these swimmer puzzles. For swimmers it is natural....for us land mammals its' like making the cheetah sprint into the water and asking the cheetah to keep up the dolphins....it just does not work. Mainly I found myself falling into that intoxication I would get endlessly serving up tennis balls, or practicing various soccer kicks. I could do that for hours as a kid and not get bored, so there I was doing the same in the pool. I realized it was something that I missed during my time doing triathlon (whoever, I would do the same technically on XC skis every winter).

In any case, the goal this year was to acquire some more technical skills and refine them. The mileage was an outcome of that. Last year, I sacrificed technical for mileage. That was somewhere stupid, but in fairness, I did try to work on skills too.


Thanks for the detailed reply.

You've given me some goals and focus for 2018. Probably not in regard to working on all strokes, but definitely in relation to increased attention to detail with refining technique.

Like you, I wasn't a high mileage swimmer when racing IM, however my current big mileage 2017 has been very different to your 2016:

* Of my current 1100+ km, all but about 55 km has been open water.
* January to July accounted for 827 km of this year's mileage.
* Around 175 swim days so far this year, averaging over 6km/swim, so quite a few days off.
* I've only visited the pool to do intervals. All other speed work was done by hanging onto faster swimmers in my ocean swim group.
* Biggest month was 174.5 km
* Biggest week was 61.5 km (10, 0,11,10 ,10, 10.5 and 10 km)
* There were many weeks when I didn't swim, (2x 1 week of hiking, 2x 2 weeks off with flu, 1 week out of the water while pretending to be a race director, nearly all of August while overseas, plus lots of weekends away).
* I've seen a lot of marine life. :-)

Edited to add:
* Only 1.5 km of naked swimming this year compared to 4.5 km in 2016.
Last edited by: satanellus: Dec 17, 17 14:40
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [satanellus] [ In reply to ]
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satanellus wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
satanellus wrote:
Absolutely love this.

As another clapped out triathlete/runner turned swimmer, I really admire your diligent attention to the small refinements and improvements.

I wish I had thought about 1200km for the year several months ago. I have tapered off my mileage since July and will hit 1100 km next week. I very much doubt I'll have a swimming year like 2017 again.


The whole idea of 1200km was loosely born in Jan 2016 when I did my first 100K month ever. Put it into context my previous tri years were barely 200K-300K for the entire year. After that, I tried to hit 100K for Feb 2016, but with 29 days, vs 31 I missed and kind of gave up but just swam every day. Then around mid Oct 2016, I realized that if I did 120-130K per month, I could finish that year with 1200K, so I went on a mission and got it done on Dec 30th. There were 3 closed days in December, so I needed a bunch of 5-7K days vs my standard 3-4K day. In any case it felt like a fun achievement, but the last two months, I found myself doing less kick, less drills and less breast stroke and back because it was "so slow" and I could not log enough mileage. The entire quest for mileage got stupid, and when Jan 1 came, I decided that I needed to focus on technical aspects and forget about distance. What ended up happening instead was as I got into the technical aspects more and more, I got sucked in to spending more and more time at the pool trying to solve these swimmer puzzles. For swimmers it is natural....for us land mammals its' like making the cheetah sprint into the water and asking the cheetah to keep up the dolphins....it just does not work. Mainly I found myself falling into that intoxication I would get endlessly serving up tennis balls, or practicing various soccer kicks. I could do that for hours as a kid and not get bored, so there I was doing the same in the pool. I realized it was something that I missed during my time doing triathlon (whoever, I would do the same technically on XC skis every winter).

In any case, the goal this year was to acquire some more technical skills and refine them. The mileage was an outcome of that. Last year, I sacrificed technical for mileage. That was somewhere stupid, but in fairness, I did try to work on skills too.


Thanks for the detailed reply.

You've given me some goals and focus for 2018. Probably not in regard to working on all strokes, but definitely in relation to increased attention to detail with refining technique.

Like you, I wasn't a high mileage swimmer when racing IM, however my current big mileage 2017 has been very different to your 2016:

* Of my current 1100+ km, all but about 55 km has been open water.
* January to July accounted for 827 km of this year's mileage.
* Around 175 swim days so far this year, averaging over 6km/swim, so quite a few days off.
* I've only visited the pool to do intervals. All other speed work was done by hanging onto faster swimmers in my ocean swim group.
* Biggest month was 174.5 km
* Biggest week was 61.5 km (10, 0,11,10 ,10, 10.5 and 10 km)
* There were many weeks when I didn't swim, (2x 1 week of hiking, 2x 2 weeks off with flu, 1 week out of the water while pretending to be a race director, nearly all of August while overseas, plus lots of weekends away).
* I've seen a lot of marine life. :-)

Edited to add:
* Only 1.5 km of naked swimming this year compared to 4.5 km in 2016.


Super cool about all that open water. It is interesting because my "best" open water year was 2006 when I only swam open water all year with a wetsuit. I swam 58xx at IMLP and was always solid....the years after that not so much and was more like 62 min to 66 min range with wetsuit. This year, I only swam open water times, one of which was an 8K double lake crossing and during that swim, I hit the 3.8K point at 58.30 and I was just cruising....this was off no wetsuit swimming. Then on the 4K return leg, basically my shoulders died from the resistance of the wetsuit (and I ran out of blood sugar since I did a 4K swim ending at 8 pm the day before and was on the 8K swim at 7 am the next day). In any case, on some fronts I find I can concentrate better on some aspects of form in the open water as there are no distractions from lines, lanes, turns, and other swimmers. I can just keep my head down close my eyes and zone into my body.

On the other hand, there are many technical elements that I cannot improve in the open water with a wetsuit on. I can only do that in the pool. This year I got totally bored in my 3 open water swims after a while. In the pool I am always totally entertained working on different technical elements different intervals, or even using different gear like paddles and fins or bands. There is no way I can get as good a core and leg workout in the open water (with wetsuit) as I can in the pool. After some of my sessions, my core and legs are completely toast. The only equivalent for me is the exhaustion after a hard XC ski using the legs and core really hard. I can't get that biking, nor running nor open water wetsuit swimming.

Honestly I regret that I did not put this level of swim focus in at age 19 when I first started triathlon....but my running (relatively speaking) was just "too good" to not spend time kicking ass at my strength vs sucking at my weakness (swimming).

Having gone through this 2 year exercise, and noting that almost all top IM guys have a swim background, I would recommend this path to anyone getting going in the sport. My "opportunity" to do all this swimming is further enhanced living 7 minutes from a pool that has 6-4 pm daily lane swim and then again 7 to 9pm on weekdays and weekends 6-1 pm and 4-7 pm. Not everyone has that level of access, so its just crazy convenient. Furthermore with no leg spasms in the water (which I have constantly on land), there is a psychological feel good feedback loop I get feeling like a stud in the pool whereas on dry land, the emotional toll of not being able to walk "normally" grates into some sense of my self esteem....I can't help it, I have been an athlete all my life and not being able to walk "normally" just annoys me on every step of every day. In the water, I am free to go into athlete superman mode.
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [satanellus] [ In reply to ]
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By the way, I have never swam 10K in my life. I keep talking about doing it, and was going to do it this summer, but it was just around the time the company I worked for lost its source of capital, and stopped paying everyone (myself and my team included), so it was a bit of a gong show of stress for everyone. It was just around the time I wanted to do a 10K and try to break 3 hours (should have been doable), but then after that, I could not focus on any athletic event, I just went to the pool for mental release purposes and could not even do any interval sets because they would require too much focus....so I just swam and got absorbed in the TdF and Vuelta for a stress outlet.

Then right after that I started my own startup (www.bluwave-ai) and thus deferred my attempt at the 1000m 50/50 fly-free TT because I could not focus on anything athletic given the rest of my life was on turbo overdrive in entrepreneur mode (and kind of still is for the next while).
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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After a few days with legs close together and toes touching and ankles pointed "in", I THINK the main gain is improving the hydrodynamics at the back end of the "vessel" and reducing the pressure gradient at the back reducing overall drag. Just like an airfoil going through the air or a torpedo in the water, you want the back and to be narrow and pointy. Probably I am not feeling any more "power" rather I am feeling a bit less "drag", with a better streamline in the back end of the body. Perhaps with my bad leg touching my good leg, the bad one gets the cue if it is not doing its job as well and I can focus a bit more on properly controlling my left leg, so there MAY be some power gain there. I will report back after the week. I did half of my swim, with the three hole band putting one hole under each knee to keep things close.

In any case, my legs were definitely too far apart on dolphin kick, fly and freestyle. I'll work on that. I think the habit came from early in my disc injury and having discomfort keeping my legs close to one another
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 19, 17 6:46
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
After a few days with legs close together and toes touching and ankles pointed "in", I THINK the main gain is improving the hydrodynamics at the back end of the "vessel" and reducing the pressure gradient at the back reducing overall drag. Just like an airfoil going through the air or a torpedo in the water, you want the back and to be narrow and pointy. Probably I am not feeling any more "power" rather I am feeling a bit less "drag", with a better streamline in the back end of the body. Perhaps with my bad leg touching my good leg, the bad one gets the cue if it is not doing its job as well and I can focus a bit more on properly controlling my left leg, so there MAY be some power gain there. I will report back after the week. I did half of my swim, with the three hole band putting one hole under each knee to keep things close.
In any case, my legs were definitely too far apart on dolphin kick, fly and freestyle. I'll work on that. I think the habit came from early in my disc injury and having discomfort keeping my legs close to one another

Interesting...i think you are the most analytical swimmer on ST right now!!!


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 1200km of swimming later the 1000m TT of 50/50 fly + free = 17:36 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I've enjoyed this thread, and am glad to see Dev get something out of his hard work.

Funny story - I retired Tom Wilkens. I was 8th in Semis at '04 trials in the 200IM and he was 9th by 1/100th of a second.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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