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1000s cut course in Mexico
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This one is a doozy if not a simple timing mat issue...

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/09/thousands-accused-cheating-mexico-city-marathon.html

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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That's crazy. 23%+ of all competitors miss more than one mat, but the distribution of mats missed, other than the last split before the finish, is pretty diverse . Of those that had a BQ time, 62+% missed more than one mat, and nearly half missed at least 4 mats.

F'ing people.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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I'm shocked but I'm not surprised.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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Course cutting is not the only issue at Mexico City. A number of potential bib mules have been identified. In addition to the examples that have been posted on the Facebook group, I have identified others by looking for identical splits and checking the finish photos. Below is a clear example: It was emailed to me and also appears on the CazaTramposos MaratĂłn Cdmx 2017 Facebook page:




You can see from this photo that the runner is wearing two bibs. The top one is registered to “Maria”. Maria is now qualified to run the 2018 Boston Marathon.

Well, men can have "Maria" as a middle name: José María Olazábal, for instance

Not likely, though


"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Surely Boston Athletics now have to remove Mexico from their pool of races that you can qualify at?

And then DQ for life anyone found to have cheated.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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while it does look like there were a lot of cheats at this race some of the poor read rates can also be attributed to ill prepared timing.

With higher % of missed reads earlier in the race compared to later in the race it tells me their timing system/plan was not robust enough to handle the density of runners early. As runners spread out later in the race you can see read rates got better

Poor timing plan yet also still lots of cheats leads to really bad looking data

Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [FF Boots] [ In reply to ]
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You could technically differentiate between course cutters and bad timing equipment by looking up individual times. If one runner cuts the course and as a result misses a timing mat, the time/pace for this portion of the course will be much faster than for the rest of the race. If timing equipment malfunctioned, the pace/time should be consistent (allow for small errors for people negative splitting) for the whole race despite missing splits. But that sounds like a pain in the ass.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [Frenchietries] [ In reply to ]
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Frenchietries wrote:
. But that sounds like a pain in the ass.

oh yeah, it can be done and should be done. Good timers will have the data and ability to make it happen without too much pain

Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [FF Boots] [ In reply to ]
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given how much missed scans they have I would be tempted to say they aren't very good timers ;)
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [Frenchietries] [ In reply to ]
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Frenchietries wrote:
You could technically differentiate between course cutters and bad timing equipment by looking up individual times. If one runner cuts the course and as a result misses a timing mat, the time/pace for this portion of the course will be much faster than for the rest of the race. If timing equipment malfunctioned, the pace/time should be consistent (allow for small errors for people negative splitting) for the whole race despite missing splits. But that sounds like a pain in the ass.


Abnormal Pace fluctuations are mentioned in the article. This guy is really good at what he does, so I take his word. Farking lowlife monkeys.

For my part, Boston is not really an accomplishment, neither is Triathlon WC, given that it largely only depends on how much money and ethics somebody is willing to drop to 'qualify'.
Last edited by: windschatten: Sep 12, 17 16:15
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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Derek posted to fb that they DQ'd ~5,000 runners. wow.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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BUILD A WALL!

(either side of the course. Too soon?)
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [Race1] [ In reply to ]
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Race1 wrote:
Surely Boston Athletics now have to remove Mexico from their pool of races that you can qualify at?

And then DQ for life anyone found to have cheated.

Probably easier to build a wall. Only question is who pays, BAA or Mexico

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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Good!
As a Mexican, this is VERY embarassing.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
This one is a doozy if not a simple timing mat issue...

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/09/thousands-accused-cheating-mexico-city-marathon.html

Trump is there negotiating some fencing, I guess to late...
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [FF Boots] [ In reply to ]
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Yep we would have had a crazy day with RED flags all day. Our software would have kicked a lot of them out.
this can easily be analized and automated as well.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
For my part, Boston is not really an accomplishment, neither is Triathlon WC, given that it largely only depends on how much money and ethics somebody is willing to drop to 'qualify'.

So you are saying that it is easy to cheat and buy your way in? Can you lay the formula out for us?
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [sportstats] [ In reply to ]
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sportstats wrote:
Yep we would have had a crazy day with RED flags all day. Our software would have kicked a lot of them out.
this can easily be analized and automated as well.

I'd hate to be analized. To each their own... as the saying goes.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [sportstats] [ In reply to ]
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Tobias Funke you might want to spell check your last post ;)
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
For my part, Boston is not really an accomplishment, neither is Triathlon WC, given that it largely only depends on how much money and ethics somebody is willing to drop to 'qualify'.

I totally agree with regards to triathlon, but how do you see that this relates to BQing?

To me it seems like the practice of buying free speed has very limited scope and return in running. I suspect that course-cutting to achieve a BQ time is pretty difficult to get away with in this day-and-age (i.e. post-Rossi); no doubt, people will try, but I don't think many will slip through the net and be standing on the start-line at Boston. And it may be naive, but I suspect the number of people doping their way to a BQ time is relatively small.

The only major issue I can see is someone using a bib-mule to run their BQ-time, but then you can't even brag about qualifying to anyone, because it only takes a cursory look at the course photos to see that you haven't run it!
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
sportstats wrote:
Yep we would have had a crazy day with RED flags all day. Our software would have kicked a lot of them out.
this can easily be analized and automated as well.


I'd hate to be analized. To each their own... as the saying goes.

^ This ... for post of the week!
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Sportstats has been analizing all of you for decades :)
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [awenborn] [ In reply to ]
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awenborn wrote:
windschatten wrote:
For my part, Boston is not really an accomplishment, neither is Triathlon WC, given that it largely only depends on how much money and ethics somebody is willing to drop to 'qualify'.

I totally agree with regards to triathlon, but how do you see that this relates to BQing?

To me it seems like the practice of buying free speed has very limited scope and return in running. I suspect that course-cutting to achieve a BQ time is pretty difficult to get away with in this day-and-age (i.e. post-Rossi); no doubt, people will try, but I don't think many will slip through the net and be standing on the start-line at Boston. And it may be naive, but I suspect the number of people doping their way to a BQ time is relatively small.

The only major issue I can see is someone using a bib-mule to run their BQ-time, but then you can't even brag about qualifying to anyone, because it only takes a cursory look at the course photos to see that you haven't run it!

Are you saying buying a nice bike or helmet is buying your way in to Kona or somehow cheating?

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www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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No, obviously I'm not saying "buying free speed" is cheating at all or indeed an important factor in qualifying for WCs. But let's be honest, it's certainly widely practiced in triathlon and a much more significant issue than in running.

As for the "cheating" side of things, I was thinking more along the lines of the numerous threads that we have on here debating the prevalence of drafting (both legal and illegal) being an accepted and, some argue, necessary part of the sport at the pointy-end of age-group races. Again, a much more significant issue in triathlon than running.
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Re: 1000s cut course in Mexico [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
sportstats wrote:
Yep we would have had a crazy day with RED flags all day. Our software would have kicked a lot of them out.
this can easily be analized and automated as well.


I'd hate to be analized. To each their own... as the saying goes.

Cartman, is that you?
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