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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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That was Eric van Lancker in 1990. Couldn't find any video of it though. But he also won the Amstel Gold Race (in 1989).
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
There is no love between Trek and QST today, they should have agreed to have De La Cruz help Contador out and then give him the stage win, instead he sat on for 50k then then took the time bonus.

Did De La Cruz have a radio? I'm not sure he could have known that maybe Dan Martin had attacked Henao on the climb and was putting time into him. If in doubt, don't pull the other guy's GC guy further ahead of your own GC guy.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
McNulty wrote:
Thinking Joe D takes a shot at this stage in PN. He lives in Nice, loves the roads and pulled the plug pretty early yesterday so if he's got anything left he'll may be in the front group. Here's hoping, anyway.


Cannondale just seems a shambles this year, more than most. Formolo and Craddock DNF. Joe D coming back from injury. Rolland seemingly regressing a bit. Woods kind of doing OK

The only thing they can take to the bank is Sep in a Classic.

If by this year you mean through March, then yeah. Joe was solid last year, don't know why he pulled out. Probably trashed from Tenerife. He's becoming set as a super domestique. Woods is a beast with not much racing experience, Formolo was 2 minutes down going into the mountains when he crashed out, effectively. He could grab a stage at the Giro, van Barrle will help Sep greatly, Phinney brings some beef, Rolland and Uran are top 10 GC GT guys. Talansky has seemingly pulled it together. Still second tier-ish, versus Sky, Quick Step, etc, but more pieces seem to be in place.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
That was Eric van Lancker in 1990. Couldn't find any video of it though. But he also won the Amstel Gold Race (in 1989).

Well, VDB did announce in an interview ahead of the race that he'd attack on La Redoute, though. Maybe not exactly where but it was telegraphed ahead of time, he did it, and smoked 'em. Dope or not, it was awesome.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [SailorSam] [ In reply to ]
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SailorSam wrote:
Benv wrote:
That was Eric van Lancker in 1990. Couldn't find any video of it though. But he also won the Amstel Gold Race (in 1989).


Well, VDB did announce in an interview ahead of the race that he'd attack on La Redoute, though. Maybe not exactly where but it was telegraphed ahead of time, he did it, and smoked 'em. Dope or not, it was awesome.
THis brought up memories so I watched some interviews from that day. Earlier in the morning VDB had been partying till 2-3 am and was totally hungover. He was supposed to meet the press but left them waiting for an hour and when them when he showed up with only 5 minutes to go before he had to leave to the start of the race he answered some questions while being all grumpy. And then later in the race - he destroyed everyone. Spectacular racing but he was taking doping and drug addition very far. It's all well described in his book ("Ik ben God niet" - not sure if it's translated).
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Attention now shifts this week to Milan-San Remo - the longest of the classics at almost 300km and one of the trickiest races of the year to predict and handicap!

I always find it a fascinating race - typically not much happens before they reach the Cipressa with about 30k to go, but then from there it can be high-drama all the way to the finish line with the outcome in doubt right to the line.

Both the Cipressa and the Poggio the other climb that comes with just 6km are not that long, but with nearly 300km of racing in the legs, they can really take a toll on riders. There is then the tricky twisting and turning descent of the Poggio right into San Remo and the about 2km drag-race from there to the finish. What's interesting is due to unusual nature of the race - in the finale mixing it up you will usually have a mixture of contenders still in the game - pure sprinters, strong-men and all-rounders, and even some climber/GC types all going for it. That's why it's such a hard race to predict. Just because, say a Mark Cavendish a pure sprinter and former winner makes it to the finale, is no guarantee of a win if it does come down to real sprint at the end. Cav like the other pure sprinters will often have no real lead-out, and they have WAY more miles in their legs then they are used to - in other words is ability to really sprint they way he is used to is diminished significantly.

More recently, it's been more of a race for the strong-men-all-rounder types - and Fabian Cancellara's stellar record here of making it to the finale regularly and being on the podium a number of times and winning it out-right one year is a testament to that.

In that light - an on-form Peter Sagan, has to be a good pick for the win. He has the fitness to go 300K, can mix-it up and win from various scenarios, and has great bike handling skills to master the descent of the Poggio (or last year avoiding a crash in the final 1K). Sagan for the win!

Who do you like?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Attention now shifts this week to Milan-San Remo - the longest of the classics at almost 300km and one of the trickiest races of the year to predict and handicap!

I always find it a fascinating race - typically not much happens before they reach the Cipressa with about 30k to go, but then from there it can be high-drama all the way to the finish line with the outcome in doubt right to the line.

Both the Cipressa and the Poggio the other climb that comes with just 6km are not that long, but with nearly 300km of racing in the legs, they can really take a toll on riders. There is then the tricky twisting and turning descent of the Poggio right into San Remo and the about 2km drag-race from there to the finish. What's interesting is due to unusual nature of the race - in the finale mixing it up you will usually have a mixture of contenders still in the game - pure sprinters, strong-men and all-rounders, and even some climber/GC types all going for it. That's why it's such a hard race to predict. Just because, say a Mark Cavendish a pure sprinter and former winner makes it to the finale, is no guarantee of a win if it does come down to real sprint at the end. Cav like the other pure sprinters will often have no real lead-out, and they have WAY more miles in their legs then they are used to - in other words is ability to really sprint they way he is used to is diminished significantly.

More recently, it's been more of a race for the strong-men-all-rounder types - and Fabian Cancellara's stellar record here of making it to the finale regularly and being on the podium a number of times and winning it out-right one year is a testament to that.

In that light - an on-form Peter Sagan, has to be a good pick for the win. He has the fitness to go 300K, can mix-it up and win from various scenarios, and has great bike handling skills to master the descent of the Poggio (or last year avoiding a crash in the final 1K). Sagan for the win!

Who do you like?

The big problem with this race is the finish line is 1k too far, if they moved it up it would be a much more dynamic race and Cancellara would probably have 4 wins. That last 1k is just enough to neutralize any late attacks and often the one who dares does not win in this race as Cancellara is all to aware.

Last year was incredibly slow towards the finish and i suspect that will not happen again, teams like Sky, UAE, and BMC need the race to be very hard. Additionally Sagan wants a hard finish so Bora also has a vested interest to drop the pure sprinters and hurt the more dynamic sprinters such as Gavaria, Kristoff, Demare, Degenkolb and company. I don't think Cav is seriously racing this spring, he has stated multiple times he is trying to take it easy and recover from last year. Cav has to be in peak form and weight to not get dropped.

Dan Loyd, commenting on Sagan, suggested that he has developed even more as a rider this year evidenced by his ability to hang with the GC riders yesterday while GVA/Kiwat/Boonen were all 1+ minute back. I think Sagan's ability to hang on steeper climbs and sprint alongside Gavaria makes him the most dangerous rider for MSR, but Sagan does not want Gavaria/Demare/Kiristoff on his wheel. With all this preamble here is what i think develops:

Sky has to go long, possibly Thomas goes on the Cipressa to set up Kiwat, similar to last year. Gilbert decides to make a move, drawing out a few other attackers, at this point its strung out going down the Cipressa. Up the poggio the pace is extremely hard, some attacks and Sagan gets on the coat tails, pushes the descent. Reduced bunch sprint of 10-12 riders, main field right behind.

Sagan
GVA
Valverde (why not)
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:

The big problem with this race is the finish line is 1k too far, if they moved it up it would be a much more dynamic race and Cancellara would probably have 4 wins. That last 1k is just enough to neutralize any late attacks and often the one who dares does not win in this race as Cancellara is all to aware.

Last year was incredibly slow towards the finish and i suspect that will not happen again, teams like Sky, UAE, and BMC need the race to be very hard. Additionally Sagan wants a hard finish so Bora also has a vested interest to drop the pure sprinters and hurt the more dynamic sprinters such as Gavaria, Kristoff, Demare, Degenkolb and company. I don't think Cav is seriously racing this spring, he has stated multiple times he is trying to take it easy and recover from last year. Cav has to be in peak form and weight to not get dropped.

Dan Loyd, commenting on Sagan, suggested that he has developed even more as a rider this year evidenced by his ability to hang with the GC riders yesterday while GVA/Kiwat/Boonen were all 1+ minute back. I think Sagan's ability to hang on steeper climbs and sprint alongside Gavaria makes him the most dangerous rider for MSR, but Sagan does not want Gavaria/Demare/Kiristoff on his wheel. With all this preamble here is what i think develops:

Sky has to go long, possibly Thomas goes on the Cipressa to set up Kiwat, similar to last year. Gilbert decides to make a move, drawing out a few other attackers, at this point its strung out going down the Cipressa. Up the poggio the pace is extremely hard, some attacks and Sagan gets on the coat tails, pushes the descent. Reduced bunch sprint of 10-12 riders, main field right behind.

Sagan
GVA
Valverde (why not)

MSR is about 2.5k too long (out of a possible 2.8k).

Sagan has to make up his damn mind. Either go all out at the middle of Poggio or wait for the sprint. No middle ground. He's good at freelancing, and can get a free tow for most of the flat section

Truth is, a 3.7% hill just isn't that selective to these guys. I'd love to see something different pan out, but i'm not holding my breath
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:

The big problem with this race is the finish line is 1k too far, if they moved it up it would be a much more dynamic race and Cancellara would probably have 4 wins. That last 1k is just enough to neutralize any late attacks and often the one who dares does not win in this race as Cancellara is all to aware.

Last year was incredibly slow towards the finish and i suspect that will not happen again, teams like Sky, UAE, and BMC need the race to be very hard. Additionally Sagan wants a hard finish so Bora also has a vested interest to drop the pure sprinters and hurt the more dynamic sprinters such as Gavaria, Kristoff, Demare, Degenkolb and company. I don't think Cav is seriously racing this spring, he has stated multiple times he is trying to take it easy and recover from last year. Cav has to be in peak form and weight to not get dropped.

Dan Loyd, commenting on Sagan, suggested that he has developed even more as a rider this year evidenced by his ability to hang with the GC riders yesterday while GVA/Kiwat/Boonen were all 1+ minute back. I think Sagan's ability to hang on steeper climbs and sprint alongside Gavaria makes him the most dangerous rider for MSR, but Sagan does not want Gavaria/Demare/Kiristoff on his wheel. With all this preamble here is what i think develops:

Sky has to go long, possibly Thomas goes on the Cipressa to set up Kiwat, similar to last year. Gilbert decides to make a move, drawing out a few other attackers, at this point its strung out going down the Cipressa. Up the poggio the pace is extremely hard, some attacks and Sagan gets on the coat tails, pushes the descent. Reduced bunch sprint of 10-12 riders, main field right behind.

Sagan
GVA
Valverde (why not)

MSR is about 2.5k too long (out of a possible 2.8k).

Sagan has to make up his damn mind. Either go all out at the middle of Poggio or wait for the sprint. No middle ground. He's good at freelancing, and can get a free tow for most of the flat section

Truth is, a 3.7% hill just isn't that selective to these guys. I'd love to see something different pan out, but i'm not holding my breath

Agree, likely it will be a bunch sprint, but can always hope for the unexpected! Its a gamble for Sagan that has cost him MSR before when he towed choelk (however you spell his name) to the line.

Also agree the cipressa is the only place to really cause a selection.

I do wonder now if cav has been sandbagging lately, he looks fairly lean from pictures this week, possibly he has just been downplaying things, who knows. The only thing i know for sure is that kittel will not even be in the same zip code if he decides to race.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I do wonder now if cav has been sandbagging lately, he looks fairly lean from pictures this week, possibly he has just been downplaying things, who knows. The only thing i know for sure is that kittel will not even be in the same zip code if he decides to race.


I know Cav is a former winner of MSR, but like a number of the really pure sprinters, he has to have a number of things go his way, to make it happen and get it all set-up for him. Of course the first thing is the distance - at nearly 300km, the pure sprinters, are simply not going to have the fitness or power that they normally have available to them, at the end of shorter races.

Also because of the distance and the tricky technical nature of the final 20km, team-support for the pure sprinters is often gone - so they are often on their own, and having to freelance it with no help and no traditional lead-out.

The one thing that Cav does have going for him, is that all he has to do in the finale if he makes it there, is just sit on wheels - he'll NOT be the one making the moves on the Cipressa, the Poggio, or even on the final 2km flat run-in to the finish. If he has the fitness and the form, he just has to find the right wheels, and wait, wait, wait until 200m or so to go! Easier said than done! :)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Mar 14, 17 9:29
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Created a league on Velogames.com for the Spring Classics

League Name: Slowtwitch
League Code: 14164018
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
Created a league on Velogames.com for the Spring Classics

League Name: Slowtwitch
League Code: 14164018
Their "Spring Classics" game is a lot of fun.

You need to enter by 10:00 CET on Saturday (3/18) in order to get in on MSR.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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MSR:

Sagan and everybody else... dude seems to be head and shoulder above everybody else at this moment!


Sagan
GVA
JohnDeg

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Sagan
GVA
JohnDeg



I like this podium.

Both Sagan and GVA are fit and on-form - and both can do well in several different finale scenarios. Degenkolb a previous winner, is hungry after essentially a year away from racing after that horrific training ride crash with a bunch of his teammates about a year ago.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Mar 16, 17 11:23
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Sagan
Gaviria
Stuyven

GvA
Degenkolb as WC's
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [SailorSam] [ In reply to ]
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Stuyven will ride for degenkolb, even if he is at the finish wont have the legs. He did well early but now guys are starting to peak and his form will be overshadowed.

The real darkhorse is bouhanni, he looked exceptional yesterday and i think he is a real danger. He can get over the climbs better than most and he has an incredible drive to win, a lot like cav. Something tells me degenkolb is not on good form and kristoff is possibly not quite there.

Sagan commented that the wind on the poggio determines if a move gets away, he said the last few years it has been a headwind and neutralizes any attacks and allows the group to reform. The year there was no wind they got away (the ice edition).





final prediction

Sagan
Bouhanni
Gavaria

WC: Cav and gilbert
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Gaviria
Sagan
Degenkolb

Theres nearly no doubt Gaviria will be a superstar and that a breakthrough win is coming. If not for inexperience it would have happened last year at MSR. Why not now?
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're right that Bouhanni will be a factor. His win at Noekere was pretty solid despite the lack of competition. But I can't put him on the podium because he's a petulant twerp.

Podium:
Degenkolb
Gaviria
Sagan

WC
Bouhanni
Demare
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [eb] [ In reply to ]
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This is my longstanding beef with the use of the "Wildcard" status. It shouldn't be used to merely extend your podium list because you want to list more than 3 likely winners. Demare won MSR last year, and is on form this year. Puh-lease. I'll *maybe* grant Bouhanni since he typically does a disappearing act immediately after demonstrating great promise.

Wildcard is to take a flyer on someone no one really expects to crash the party, like Hayman at Paris-Roubaix. Someone in the early break of anonymous Pro Continental riders that everyone chuckles over, but somehow manages to still have 2:00 with 10K to go. The early-career great hope that petered out into a dreary career as a domestique showing flashes of greatness at just the right time (Hayman).

Podium:
Demare
GVA
P. Sagan (don't want to, but have to at this point)

Wildcard:
Boasson Hagen
Tim Wellens







eb wrote:
I think you're right that Bouhanni will be a factor. His win at Noekere was pretty solid despite the lack of competition. But I can't put him on the podium because he's a petulant twerp.

Podium:
Degenkolb
Gaviria
Sagan

WC
Bouhanni
Demare
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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My two ''wildcard" choices of Cav and Gilbert are possibly an extension of the podium except that neither will likely be on the podium. Cav's one win was the perfect culmination of events, most other years he is either dropped or does not have the legs, it is a really hard time of year for him to be in top condition considering he is peaking later in the year.

For Gilbert, does he has the potential to win, absolutely, but his chances reside in the perfect set of circumstances unfolding. His talent level is quite high for a wildcard but i think it is justified. Kiwat would be another borderline wildcard, likely has not chance, but if he did win it would not be completely shocking either.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:

For Gilbert, does he has the potential to win, absolutely, but his chances reside in the perfect set of circumstances unfolding. His talent level is quite high for a wildcard but i think it is justified. Kiwat would be another borderline wildcard, likely has not chance, but if he did win it would not be completely shocking either.

I think the only rider who *doesn't* require a particular set of circumstances is Sagan. He's the only one who can win from almost any situation, e.g. he can win like Cancellara (long range), Gilbert (medium long) or Cav (closer). Even being the most marked guy out there.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:


For Gilbert, does he has the potential to win, absolutely, but his chances reside in the perfect set of circumstances unfolding. His talent level is quite high for a wildcard but i think it is justified. Kiwat would be another borderline wildcard, likely has not chance, but if he did win it would not be completely shocking either.


I think the only rider who *doesn't* require a particular set of circumstances is Sagan. He's the only one who can win from almost any situation, e.g. he can win like Cancellara (long range), Gilbert (medium long) or Cav (closer). Even being the most marked guy out there.

Though i am not a GVA fan, he is the closest to Sagan, lots of weapons. Boonen can also be quite dynamic but it will depend on how they decide to attack Sagan, which they have to do. I am getting excited, hopefully we will have a race on Saturday!
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
This is my longstanding beef with the use of the "Wildcard" status. It shouldn't be used to merely extend your podium list because you want to list more than 3 likely winners. Demare won MSR last year, and is on form this year. Puh-lease. I'll *maybe* grant Bouhanni since he typically does a disappearing act immediately after demonstrating great promise.

Sorry if I broke your made-up rules. ;-) I do see your point. Butbutbut - there are what, five former winners in the race? And that's not unusual for MSR. With MSR, it's really hard to avoid picking guys with a legitimate shot because there are 10-15, at most 20 guys who have a solid chance, and everyone else has pretty much zero chance.

Would you grant Pozzato wild card status? And was Hayman a true wildcard when he had 2 previous top tens in PR?
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [SailorSam] [ In reply to ]
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Speaking of MSR and perhaps the Giro, Bein Sports has had these, and I believe the Tour of Flanders the past couple years. I haven't seen anything regarding whether or not Bein is in the cycling business anymore. Does anyone in ST world have any info?

for MSR
Sagan
GVA
Bouhanni

WC
Dumoulin


"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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My two ''wildcard" choices of Cav and Gilbert are possibly an extension of the podium except that neither will likely be on the podium. Cav's one win was the perfect culmination of events, most other years he is either dropped or does not have the legs, it is a really hard time of year for him to be in top condition considering he is peaking later in the year.

Agreed on Cav - a number of things have to go his way for him to even make the final selection. I recall in some recent years, he's not even made it into the final group heading into the Cipressa. If you are not there, at that point, your day is over and you are just riding it in from there!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Mar 17, 17 7:55
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