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% increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles
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Maybe there is a different way I should approach this question. I've mostly been using the barryP plan for my run training the last year. First year in a long time that I've stayed injury free. I'm doing 30 mpw currently and doing 1 tempo run a week. I know that most of the rationale behind barryp method is to get faster through more miles (high percentage of easy miles) instead of wearing your body down and risking injury by doing a lot of hard runs. So maybe, given that, the answer to my question is to simply keep increasing my miles.

Anyway, the thing one hears the most about increasing miles is increase 10% at a time at most. I was wondering what a similar % increase in pace for hard runs would be if I wanted to stay at 30 mpw.

Basically, I looked at McMillan and Daniels calculators, based on previous races, to see what pace I should currently be doing my threshold workouts and then I put in my goal race time to see what my threshold workout pace would be if I was currently able to run that goal race pace.

My plan was to stay at my current miles per week and slowly increase the pace of my threshold runs till I got to where I was running my threshold runs at the goal pace for, per those calculators, what I should be training at to be capable of running my goal race time.

10% and 5% increase in pace looked too drastic and 1% looked too slow of an increase and 2% increase looked like a more reasonable rate. To clarify, I mean 2% increase in threshold run pace per month not per week (don't want to increase training speed too quick and risk injury).

So, anybody try to increase their running and thus their speed, this way by increasing training spead incrementally instead of increasing miles and if so how fast did you increase your training pace. Also, this is in reference to training for a half-marathon.
Last edited by: kaywould: Sep 28, 16 11:09
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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I'm also interested in this but from a slightly different angle. I am also doing a BarryP plan and am at about the same weekly mileage. I'm one month in and am going to do a 5K and 10K TT to gauge improvement (if any yet) and adjust my paces. But I've been wondering what a reasonable new pace to shoot for during the TTs is. I also came up with around 2% but am also not sure. So, like you, about a 2% increase per month in testing pace, however that works out to my long and recovery paces once entered into McMillan.

Curious what others have to say.
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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This is a very bad approach. The way Daniels vdot works is not to put in your goal time and train to it. It's to put you CURRENT fitness in and train by that. You don't move up until your performance dictates.

So let's say your current half fitness is 1:25:00. Your Daniels T is ~6:25 with a vdot of 54. You train at that until you race faster (or time trial). You don't need to race a half marathon to move it, you can race any distance and get the current vdot.

It's a purposely conservative method, and one that has trained numerous elites.

When run training only, it's a tried and true method, and I would not arbitrarily increase your paces because a calendar suggests it.

As an N = 1 example: I worked with a coach back in 2010 and 2011 and when I first started with him he had me following this and I was getting aggravated because everything felt so slow. My first 5k with him I popped a 30 second PR (from 17:29 to 16:59) and I ran a 10k later in the season where I popped a 1:21 PR from 36:40 down to 35:19.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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I understand that is the way it's meant to be used. That is such a clunky, for lack of a better term, way to increase ones training speed. Essentially just training at all the same speeds until a more recent race or time trial bumps you up to a higher vdot. I am wondering if there is some tried and true method, like increasing your weekly mileage by 10%, for increasing training paces. The other way to theoretically do it would be to do a time trial every week (I'm not advocating this) so there would be a smoother progression in how fast you increase your training paces versus training at the same paces for months until another race comes along. Just seems like there should be a more smooth and continuous way to slowly but gradually be increasing your training pace. I don't race that often to just use races as a measure of if I'm getting faster so I guess I would have to do more frequent time trials. But if you did monthly time trials per se then that would essentially be the same as increasing your pace by a certain % each month. The one problem I could see is if theoretically you were training for a half-marathon or marathon but if most of your time trials or races were from shorter runs then your new vdot might be over inflated for training paces for training for longer distances. That's why I was curious if there is some tried and true way to increase training pace that is analogous to the 10% rule for increasing weekly mileage.
Last edited by: kaywould: Sep 28, 16 14:53
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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You can ignore a couple guys who have coached multiple olympians because you find it "clunky" if you want. The fact is, it works. It uses evidence that you're ready to train at higher speeds to train at those higher speeds.

Alternatively, Daniels does say you can increment 1 vdot for every 6 weeks of dedicated training. But what you described doesn't match what he means.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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Well I guess I'll just stick with using those websites the way they were meant. I was just curious if there was a different way that I wasn't aware of. The answer, apparently, is no there is not a better way that I was not aware of.
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Re: % increases in pace vs 10% increase in miles [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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Well the other way, which usually data obsessed triathletes hate, is to just run by feel. :)

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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