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"Lemonade out of Lemons" article
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I read the article on the rider who continued on in the worlds.

First, congratulations on continuing on and completing the race, and qualifying and racing 70.3 worlds.

I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.

But and and here comes the BUT, it did leave me wondering what kind of experience the rider had and especially dealing with what is a really simple mechanical issue that we could all potentially face. I found 4 things a little odd:

1. Not knowing that you had a flat
2. Not practicing removing tires from race wheels.
3. Not having a backup plan for a non removable valve core tube
3. Not knowing that carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims and not taking a wheel from another friend.

The learnings should be: You can buy thread on valve extenders that work with non removable valve core type tubes. I carry on with me always.

I also wrap teflon tape around the valve extender so that I can tape any presta tube threads, and you can just be on your way with any Presta tube.

Carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims, that is what a lit of riders do when they switch to training wheels.

While the story was amusing and I am really glad Bryan finished the race instead of dropping out, and also spread a lot of gratitude on the run, to me it sends a message that we all need to learn more about how our bikes work, and practice and prepare for all scenarios.

Sorry in advance for pontificating, I know this makes me sound pretty snarky.
Last edited by: endosch2: Sep 13, 17 7:42
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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Can't you just unscrew the presta valve on ANY tube and use an extender with it? I've done this for years. I'm not sure what kind of extender the OP had, so maybe the incompatibility was there?
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
Can't you just unscrew the presta valve on ANY tube and use an extender with it? I've done this for years. I'm not sure what kind of extender the OP had, so maybe the incompatibility was there?
Only some tubes have removable valve cores. Most are not removable. Also, there are extenders for removable valve cores (stem > extender > valve) and extenders for non-removable (stem > valve > extender).

Yep practice fixing a flat. It is dead easy. It just takes practice. If you are reading this and you've never flatted on your race bike? Especially if a bike shop mounted your tires?! When you get home tonight, take the tires and tubes off, and mount them yourself. Also make sure your CO2 fits the valve and makes a good seal. If there are extenders involved practice moving them to another tube. Buy more extenders and mount them on the spare and carry an extra one in the flat kit just in case. If you have removable valve cores carry an extra core. They are tiny and costs you nothing to have one on the bike even if you'd probably never use it. I actually had a leaky valve in training and replace it with a spare core. Without that I would have had to stop every 5 miles to use a minipump.

About that. In training carry a minipump, adhesive patches, and something to boot a tire with if you get a large gash.
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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I can change a flat and have done so on the side of the road many times. What I can't do, is do so quickly. I also often destroy a tube while doing so.

Yesterday I replaced my tires at home (due to wear) and, as I often do, I pierced the tube while trying to get the new tire on the wheel. Why do they make those things so darn tight? I took my time and I even used baby powder.

endosch2 wrote:
I read the article on the rider who continued on in the worlds.

First, congratulations on continuing on and completing the race, and qualifying and racing 70.3 worlds.

I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.

But and and here comes the BUT, it did leave me wondering what kind of experience the rider had and especially dealing with what is a really simple mechanical issue that we could all potentially face. I found 4 things a little odd:

1. Not knowing that you had a flat
2. Not practicing removing tires from race wheels.
3. Not having a backup plan for a non removable valve core tube
3. Not knowing that carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims and not taking a wheel from another friend.

The learnings should be: You can buy thread on valve extenders that work with non removable valve core type tubes. I carry on with me always.

I also wrap teflon tape around the valve extender so that I can tape any presta tube threads, and you can just be on your way with any Presta tube.

Carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims, that is what a lit of riders do when they switch to training wheels.

While the story was amusing and I am really glad Bryan finished the race instead of dropping out, and also spread a lot of gratitude on the run, to me it sends a message that we all need to learn more about how our bikes work, and practice and prepare for all scenarios.

Sorry in advance for pontificating, I know this makes me sound pretty snarky.
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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I was somehow (maybe incorrectly) under the impression that you should NOT use carbon pads interchangeably on aluminum rims. Reason being that you could get some aluminum filings or metal debris stuck in the pad, then when you swap back to carbon rims this would damage the carbon brake surface

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning,
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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endosch2 wrote:
I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.

i had no idea this story was even being published until after the poll was published. the poll was entirely my idea, the story was herbert's. no connection.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
endosch2 wrote:
I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.


i had no idea this story was even being published until after the poll was published. the poll was entirely my idea, the story was herbert's. no connection.

No connection but clearly your brains are connected in lock step with each other having worked together so long. You won't be the first duo where one guy can finish the other guy's sentence better than the guy who started it off, or the other guy implements the strategy before the other guy even tables it...."hey boss, it's done, can we move on to the next thing now ????".
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Slowman wrote:
endosch2 wrote:
I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.


i had no idea this story was even being published until after the poll was published. the poll was entirely my idea, the story was herbert's. no connection.


No connection but clearly your brains are connected in lock step with each other having worked together so long. You won't be the first duo where one guy can finish the other guy's sentence better than the guy who started it off, or the other guy implements the strategy before the other guy even tables it...."hey boss, it's done, can we move on to the next thing now ????".

what got ME thinking about this was building a bike for a rather neophyte athlete for chattanooga worlds with a disc rear and deep front. what i settled on was a spare that had a topeak valve extender that could be screwed over a standard stem without removing the core. this allowed the rider to carry one spare tube that would work for both wheels: unscrew the extender and the 52mm valve is the right length for the disc opening.

and then i got to wondering whether everybody in the race basically gets this, understands and thinks the way i do (or thinks it through to an even better solution) or whether these folks don't think it through and get a flat and then go, "oh, shit," when they pop open their spare kit and find that they didn't change out their spare tube kit when they put their race wheels on.

that's when i started thinking about how to poll this.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I have no idea about in the middle of races...but I'm constantly surprised by the amount of people that get flats on our local rides, pull out their spare tube (if they have one, which is a whole different rant) and it has a 40mm stem on it....to go in their 60mm deep wheels. No extender, no plans to some how magically stretch it on the side of the road...nothing. I've helped multiple people out just by providing a tube w/ an 80mm valve that I always carry.

That doesn't solve your situation with a disc, but at least I know what I need to fix my bike which has 64mm deep wheels front and back.

</Rant>
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
I was somehow (maybe incorrectly) under the impression that you should NOT use carbon pads interchangeably on aluminum rims. Reason being that you could get some aluminum filings or metal debris stuck in the pad, then when you swap back to carbon rims this would damage the carbon brake surface

theoretically possible, in practice I have not seen problems while swapping between alu training and carbon race wheels.. inspect the pads and brush them off when swapping, never yet seen metal in there..
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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maybe someday Bryan will learn this stuff, and actually succeed at this triathalon thing.....
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM wrote:
maybe someday Bryan will learn this stuff, and actually succeed at this triathalon thing.....

Because his mom is embarrassed about his past results based on her own...
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Slowman wrote:
endosch2 wrote:
I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.


i had no idea this story was even being published until after the poll was published. the poll was entirely my idea, the story was herbert's. no connection.


No connection but clearly your brains are connected in lock step with each other having worked together so long. You won't be the first duo where one guy can finish the other guy's sentence better than the guy who started it off, or the other guy implements the strategy before the other guy even tables it...."hey boss, it's done, can we move on to the next thing now ????".


what got ME thinking about this was building a bike for a rather neophyte athlete for chattanooga worlds with a disc rear and deep front. what i settled on was a spare that had a topeak valve extender that could be screwed over a standard stem without removing the core. this allowed the rider to carry one spare tube that would work for both wheels: unscrew the extender and the 52mm valve is the right length for the disc opening.

and then i got to wondering whether everybody in the race basically gets this, understands and thinks the way i do (or thinks it through to an even better solution) or whether these folks don't think it through and get a flat and then go, "oh, shit," when they pop open their spare kit and find that they didn't change out their spare tube kit when they put their race wheels on.

that's when i started thinking about how to poll this.

It is interesting that you bring this up as Lionel Sanders himself went through this mental exercise more of less and almost screwed himself over at ITU Long Course World's in Penticton. Any more screwing around with his flat and he'd have lost the race.
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
a disc rear and deep front. what i settled on was a spare that had a topeak valve extender that could be screwed over a standard stem without removing the core. this allowed the rider to carry one spare tube that would work for both wheels

that's what i did with a disc and 80mm front wheel. made the most sense and allowed the quickest change for all scenarios.
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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Those Zoot trisuits are hands down the ugliest things I have ever seen. That's all I have to add to this thread. :-)

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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endosch2 wrote:
I read the article on the rider who continued on in the worlds.

First, congratulations on continuing on and completing the race, and qualifying and racing 70.3 worlds.

I wonder if this story was the trigger for the poll about flatting.

But and and here comes the BUT, it did leave me wondering what kind of experience the rider had and especially dealing with what is a really simple mechanical issue that we could all potentially face. I found 4 things a little odd:

1. Not knowing that you had a flat
2. Not practicing removing tires from race wheels.
3. Not having a backup plan for a non removable valve core tube
3. Not knowing that carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims and not taking a wheel from another friend.

The learnings should be: You can buy thread on valve extenders that work with non removable valve core type tubes. I carry on with me always.

I also wrap teflon tape around the valve extender so that I can tape any presta tube threads, and you can just be on your way with any Presta tube.

Carbon pads work fine on aluminum rims, that is what a lit of riders do when they switch to training wheels.

While the story was amusing and I am really glad Bryan finished the race instead of dropping out, and also spread a lot of gratitude on the run, to me it sends a message that we all need to learn more about how our bikes work, and practice and prepare for all scenarios.

Sorry in advance for pontificating, I know this makes me sound pretty snarky.


Ha ha I felt the same. Reading it, I was thinking how does he not know how to change a tyre and was also thinking that perhaps I was being a bit snide and mean-spirited for thinking that... but yeah needing help to change a tyre at the World Champs...

There's a lot of people (mostly seems to be women) in my club that cannot change a tyre and refuse to learn. Problem is, other club mates stop for them during races, which is admirable, but can cost them their race. One guy missed a spot at the World Champs by 5 mins because he stopped to help a damsel in distress. Is it a little bit selfish?
Last edited by: zedzded: Sep 13, 17 19:37
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I actually like them and they are distinctive.

The GMAN wrote:
Those Zoot trisuits are hands down the ugliest things I have ever seen. That's all I have to add to this thread. :-)
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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+1. Its almost as if they were jealous of wattie's ugly suits.
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
I was somehow (maybe incorrectly) under the impression that you should NOT use carbon pads interchangeably on aluminum rims. Reason being that you could get some aluminum filings or metal debris stuck in the pad, then when you swap back to carbon rims this would damage the carbon brake surface


I was under the same impression, but in a pinch you could use them on the aluminum rim to finish the race and then toss them.

One reason I love my 60/60 combo - A spare tube with an 80mm stem fits either wheel even with the disk cover on the rear. A valve extender that doesn't require removing the core just in case I have to borrow a tube and I am set

Not to be a one upper but I did have three flats and a broken chain in a 70.3. Of course I had no hope at a podium and it was a B race. I treated it like a catered training day.
Last edited by: Anachronism: Sep 13, 17 20:36
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Re: "Lemonade out of Lemons" article [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned the outside assistance this athlete used and whether it is grounds for disqualification. I don't believe you are allowed to have a volunteer change your tyre for you or have a spectator use their mobile device to ping for additional assistance. It sounds like he had more people working on his tyre than a pit crew at the Indy 500?
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