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Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too!
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Hi Everyone:
Just noticed this over on the general Forum. The Ventum bikes are pretty cool, and there will bike bikes to ride over in Kona, for those of you headed over.
Usually, there are a nice collection of brands w demo bikes, so if you're looking to try out new bikes side by side, here's your chance.
I spent a few days working next to the Ventum folks last week at Interbike, and they are a fun and spirited crew...
Here's link to more info:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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The size 46 is 700c wheels. Small bike, big wheels, no go from my viewpoint. Small bikes need small, 650c wheels. Glad I nabbed a Cervelo 45cm frameset with 650c when I did.

"Ain't no shortcuts to the Opry."
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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For standard dual triangle frame configurations, that may be the case... Heck, I worked w Dan in the early days of QR when dual 650 C wheels were the only option for bikes smaller than 53cm, and we all spent many hours as 650C/steep seat angle evangelists.
However, what I have learned, especially after seeing the Cervelo P5X, is that the problems associated with 700c wheels (long wheelbase, front foot/wheel pedal clearance, slack seat tube angles, etc) have been creatively solved, by a few bike manufacturers, by altering to the frame shapes, geometries, and lack of downtube and/or seat tube. The Cervelo P5X has a curved "top tube" to accommodate standover for the smaller riders. Yeah, all these bikes are expensive, but my knee-jerk anti 700c wheel reaction on smaller bikes, has, for a time, been calmed down by great engineering.

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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My wife just tested the 46 Ventum One. As we're not racing, we didn't have shoes/pedals/helmet with us, but Ventum got us a helmet to borrow and put on flat pedals. Not ideal, but still a way to test the bike.

This is one fast bike!!! She currently has a Cervelo P3 that is pretty tricked out, but during her test ride, she averaged 21mph into the headwind on Queen K (only out, I drove out and drove her back, so never saw tailwind), that's probably 1-2mph faster than what she would've done in a race on the P3. Plus trucks driving past, sidewind etc was never noticeable. Yeah, she's going to race a Ventum next year.

This is the first small frame with 700 wheels that actually fit her perfect (the P3 works, but she's barely clearing the top tub when she stops), no toe overlap, and no need for 650's (which she's tried on some pretty darn nice bikes, but never really liked them).

"Suddenly the thought struck me. My floor is someone elses ceiling"-Nils Ferlin
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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Nobody has answered the toe-overlap question. I don't have problems standing over the bike; I have nearly crashed on multiple occasions because my shoes were too close to the front tire while turning.

Hopefully, I will someday get a chance to ride the Ventum and judge for myself. Gee would also be an appropriate surrogate; she's even shorter than me 😜

Wag More, Bark Less
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, agree.. I've owned a total of 6 bikes in my adult life - two of which were 700c wheels. Every bike w/650c wheels felt great, super stable, great control climbing and cornering even at high speeds. Every bike w/700c wheels I felt like I was a beginner that didn't know how to ride my bike, super unstable and crashed often. My first road bike had 700c wheels and was a Fuji (Size 51/52)... sold to me by Performance Bikes, I was told by the shop that it was the right size for me.... I never felt good/comfortable on the bike and felt unstable on it. A few years later I got my first triathlon bike a Cervelo Dual (Size 48 w/650c wheels) - it was an instant difference from averaging 16mph to instantly 18mph riding on the hoods, 19mph in aero AND I felt so comfortable and it fit like a glove. I sold my road bike w/700c wheels and a few years later decided I wanted to get another road bike for training and chalked up the unstable feeling to the bike being the wrong size.... got a Cannondale (Size 48 w/700c wheels) and nope rarely rode it because I crashed often and felt like I was riding on stilts... insane toe lap being a huge issue. Then upgraded my tri bike to a Felt B12 (Size 48 w/650c wheels) back to being super comfortable, gave my Cannondale road bike to my sister and bought a different road bike, a Cervelo RS (Size 48 w/650c wheels) - great fit again feel super comfortable and in control.

I've had many people (all men) tell me that the lack of bike frame options w/650c wheels is because they aren't necessary with the new frame adjustments and a short petite woman like myself should have no issues on a current small frame w/big wheels. Not buying it... I constantly get the line of female pro "x" rides "x" brand size 48 bike w/700c wheels and she won "x" Ironman or Kona - if sponsors aren't offering a 650c option then they have to ride the 700c, they aren't going to make a different frame just for their one female pro even if 650c worked better for her. Unfortunately, I won't be in the market for a new tri bike until they start making 650c an option again... if Felt or Cervelo were making high end tri frames w/650c wheels I'd very likely be laying down the $ (5K+) but until that happens I'm doing upgrades to my current frame - HED Jet 6 (650c), carbon base/aero bars, eTap, Quarq, etc.


Elisha
"Triathlon doesn't build character. It reveals it."
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [f_ahsile04] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, I'll say the same thing here that I said in the 15k thread, for the record.
I've never tried a 700c bike, so I have no experience with toe overlap. For me it's about stack and PadY. In the "standover" thread in the main forum, Jimmy says the Ventum 46 has a stack height of 492. My current frame has a stack height of 437, and I have a -27 stem on there, which the "front end low" thread says should reduce Y another 400mm or so, which makes sense since my PadY is under 400. So, no Ventum for me. I doubt it is possible to get under 400 on any frame -- I don't feel like doing the math, but I suspect 700 wheels are taller than that, even without a frame. I'd say odds favor Damon and Cannondale for a possible 650 superishbike.
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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SallyShortyPnts wrote:
Nobody has answered the toe-overlap question. I don't have problems standing over the bike; I have nearly crashed on multiple occasions because my shoes were too close to the front tire while turning.

Hopefully, I will someday get a chance to ride the Ventum and judge for myself. Gee would also be an appropriate surrogate; she's even shorter than me 😜

You guys know this better than me, but could I be correct in thinking that the only tri bike out there w dual 650 C wheels would be the QR Dulce XS?
KS

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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STConcierge wrote:
SallyShortyPnts wrote:
Nobody has answered the toe-overlap question. I don't have problems standing over the bike; I have nearly crashed on multiple occasions because my shoes were too close to the front tire while turning.

Hopefully, I will someday get a chance to ride the Ventum and judge for myself. Gee would also be an appropriate surrogate; she's even shorter than me 😜


You guys know this better than me, but could I be correct in thinking that the only tri bike out there w dual 650 C wheels would be the QR Dulce XS?
KS


What Cervelo has on their website is a 650 option in size 45. I don't know whether it reflects "old" 2016 specs or not. That is why I bought the last bike frame in my size. In case the 2017 model line up doesn't have a 650 option, at least I have a few years until I face the ultimate bike fit question again.

Mirinda Carfrae got spread out on 700 wheels with this year's Felt. Let's hope that wasn't a decision that costs her a couple minutes of free speed that she could use at 5'3". Another one bites the dust...

Wag More, Bark Less
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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At the moment, I think you can still get the Cannondale Slice size 44 frame with 650 wheels and the Felt B2 size 47. Since Sally bought the last Cervelo, that's out. ;)
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Gee] [ In reply to ]
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Just so you know, SSP didn't get the very last 45cm. R&A Cycles has some new old stock, for example: https://www.racycles.com/...elo-p3-frameset-7904

"Ain't no shortcuts to the Opry."
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [f_ahsile04] [ In reply to ]
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When you and SSP and the others find a tri bike that fits your/our average female sizes and can be ridden comfortably on 700c wheels without sending us down to the pavement every time we have to make a sharp turn, can you please start a post with a subject like, "Eureka! It exists!"? That's the conundrum that's driving me batty. I'm on a 9 year old Cervelo P3 size 48 with 650 wheels. Would love to upgrade, but do I buy a size 48 frame with 700 wheels? Or do I try to make a size 45 frame fit me, when it's technically one size too small, just so I can go with 650s? I'd like to believe that someone (anyone?) has solved the toe overlap problem, because it would be vastly easier to ride the same size wheels that all the manufacturers want to support. Not to mention, if I need major mechanical assistance during a long course tri (like a new wheel or tire), I'm hosed riding 650s, as they're not supported. But I don't want to make the same mistake I made several years ago and purchase a frame that fits me, only to have it come with 700c wheels, which want to send me toppling any time I turn at a sharp angle.

I guess, in theory, I can test ride some frames that are my size and come with 700 wheels, but it seems like bad form to crash the shop's new bikes while test riding them, just to see if I can actually make a tight turn on the frames. Aren't there any female bike designers out there, who can explain why wheel size is more than just stand-over frame height?
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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When you say "technically it's one size too small," what do you mean? How is it too small? Are you going only by the 45 vs 48 designation? The geometry is close enough that I think you could make it work, unless you have some unusual fit needs. The advantages of going with a 45 would be 650c wheels, smaller (more aero) bike, easier to mount/dismount, and (for the moment) great prices on used race wheels.

I'm just someone who is small and likes bikes--not a fitter or a pro. I can help you brainstorm how to make it fit. If you want, pm me or post your stack, reach and inseam. I can also eyeball on my P3 45 what would be needed to make it fit for you.

You might find this thread comparing geometry of "old" vs "new" P3 helpful: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._my_old_P2_P5030025/[/url]

"Ain't no shortcuts to the Opry."
Last edited by: Tri3: Oct 25, 16 5:59
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Reach is 450 mm to center of aerobar pad. Stack is 570mm. Distance between center of pads is 250mm. When I posted on the "post your pad x/y" thread, Cyclenutz told me that if I want 650 wheels, I could achieve the same fit that I have no on my size 48 P3C (old geometry) with a (new geometry) size 45 P2 or P3. My question now is, "can I duplicate my current fit on a frame that takes 700c wheels and feel comfortable/stable on it? Can I turn tight corners without worrying about toe overlap sending me sprawling?" I already have 650 race wheels, but as I mentioned, race mechanics generally don't support 650s anymore. Is there anything on the market with 700c wheels that will feel as good as my current, 9-year old P3C with 650s?
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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I don't understand what you mean by this statement, "race mechanics generally don't support 650s anymore."

"Ain't no shortcuts to the Opry."
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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You can fit a 700c tube into a 650c clincher tire, if that helps. As to the math question, I have no answers as to how to make that work...

Wag More, Bark Less
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Here's what I mean: when you do an Ironman these days, let's say you have a problem with one of your wheels or your tires. Not a tube -- we all carry spare tubes with us, and as Sally says, a 700 tube can be used in a 650 wheel -- but let's say you have some major problem that requires you to borrow a wheel or get a new tire from the race mechanic. Do you really think that they're going to have a spare 650 tire or a spare 650 wheel to lend you? I don't think so. I think they're going to be stocked up with 700s.

I just did IM Barcelona. That's 3,000 athletes. I walked around transition on race morning, and do you know how many bikes I saw with 650 wheels? One other one. Granted, I may have missed a few, but those of us who ride 650s are a shrinking breed. Please don't get me wrong -- I adore my 650s. But it was scary doing a race where I knew that I'd have to abandon if I had a major mechanical issue involving a wheel or a tire, simply because I use equipment that is so rare nowadays. And don't even get me started about how hard it is to mount most 650 tires onto 650 rims. I change my husband's 700s every time he flats, and they are a dream. Less than three minutes to get the tire off the rim, old tube out, new tube in, tire back onto the rim. Two weeks ago, I put all new tires and all new tubes onto his 700 wheels, and it took me less than 15 minutes to get all the old stuff off and all the new stuff on. In contrast, whenever I have to put a new tube in or a new tire onto one of my wheels, it's a cage wrestling match involving cursing, snapped tire levers, and shredded fingers. Doesn't matter if I'm talking about my race wheels or my everyday wheels; mounting tires onto them is a bear.

If someone can solve the toe overlap issue and whatever other geometric issues we average-sized women encounter when we try to put our small-ish bodies onto bikes that come with 700s, I'd gladly join the 99% who ride 700s. I'm just dubious that the problem has been fixed until I hear from other women my size who say they were previously comfortable on 650s and are now comfortable on 700s.
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Re: Ventum Demo Bikes in Kona... size 46, too! [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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I've only done independent races. I've never expected that level of bike support (eg, supplying a wheel). If you're that concerned about it, it seems as though you could make advance arrangements with bike support.

"Ain't no shortcuts to the Opry."
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