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politics aside, sounds like Kim may be clueless . He is broadcasting a strike on Guam within the week? Now I m thinking we send in some miniature drones and poison the fucker.

sometimes
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Re: new NK thread [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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So a first act of war? Smart.
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Re: new NK thread [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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Bad idea.

Devil we know vs whatever chucklehead takes his place. He's at least shown some measure of predictability.

We aren't exactly batting 1.000 on regime change either.

Suffer Well.
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Re: new NK thread [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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mustangchef wrote:
politics aside, sounds like Kim may be clueless . He is broadcasting a strike on Guam within the week? Now I m thinking we send in some miniature drones and poison the fucker.

This isn't new or unique to Kim Jong-un. The DPRK has been making this type of broadcast almost daily for decades - essentially since the armistice. War with the U.S. is always imminent...going to set the whole U.S. on fire, etc. Part of the standard daily propaganda schtick. We don't hear it because the U.S. media only pay attention when tensions rise and they start reporting the broadcasts, and then it sounds shocking if you're new to it.

It's absolutely meaningless. No one in South Korea pays attention.
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Re: new NK thread [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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Beijing is only 500 miles from Pyongyang. I am sure the Chinese leaders are smart enough to understand the ramifications to China if the US is forced to launch a nuclear strike at NK. Between fallout and people scrambling for the borders this could be China's worst nightmare.

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: new NK thread [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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This is clearly a case of where we have two completely clueless morons with huge egos, each with a finger on the nuclear button and having a penis length comparison contest. International political diplomacy has been dumbed down to the lowest possible level. Kim is a nutball but at the same time anybody backing Donnie on this one is as clueless as he is. Either that or they just don't care about what would happen to South Korea. All that will happen is NK will continue to make groundless threats and Trump will continue tweeting the same. Or let's hope so.
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Re: new NK thread [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
Beijing is only 500 miles from Pyongyang. I am sure the Chinese leaders are smart enough to understand the ramifications to China if the US is forced to launch a nuclear strike at NK. Between fallout and people scrambling for the borders this could be China's worst nightmare.
Explain how the US would be "forced" to launch a nuclear strike. Someone is holding a gun to the Don's head? NK has basically nothing to lose by launching anything, successful or not. The US would become the biggest pariah state in the world if they launched a nuclear strike at an essentially defenceless (to such a strike) nation, which would be guaranteed to cause massive civilian casualties while doing relatively little to their government. Especially since the US could accomplish the same damage (and possibly do better in terms of hitting strategic targets) without the fallout effects by using conventional explosives, delivered by cruise missile.
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Re: new NK thread [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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You do have a good point

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: new NK thread [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Big Endian wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Beijing is only 500 miles from Pyongyang. I am sure the Chinese leaders are smart enough to understand the ramifications to China if the US is forced to launch a nuclear strike at NK. Between fallout and people scrambling for the borders this could be China's worst nightmare.

Explain how the US would be "forced" to launch a nuclear strike. Someone is holding a gun to the Don's head? NK has basically nothing to lose by launching anything, successful or not. The US would become the biggest pariah state in the world if they launched a nuclear strike at an essentially defenceless (to such a strike) nation, which would be guaranteed to cause massive civilian casualties while doing relatively little to their government. Especially since the US could accomplish the same damage (and possibly do better in terms of hitting strategic targets) without the fallout effects by using conventional explosives, delivered by cruise missile.

Not that I'm advocating a nuclear strike, but the notion that you could cause the same damage to North Korean facilities using conventional weapons just isn't true. Many of their most important targets, to include their nuclear facilities, are buried deep underground and are relatively impervious to conventional weapons.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: new NK thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Some friends of ours are just now returning from being stationed in South Korea. The husband is a F-15 pilot and will not be back for a few weeks. The wife has returned with the kids to buy a house and prep for the school year.

I asked her about the attitude of the South regarding the North. She pretty much said they don't pay attention. At first I thought she was just blowing off the "politics" discussion, but in the end, that seems to be their position.
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Re: new NK thread [tgrunnin] [ In reply to ]
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I asked her about the attitude of the South regarding the North. She pretty much said they don't pay attention.


I have a few friends in Seoul and that is the attitude I get from them too. I lived in Asia for a few years and would say in general, that is the attitude of most of the people I knew, very apolitical about their governments. In SK, the young people in particular are far more interested with what is happening with the latest K-Pop bands than the little man up North and the older generation just concern themselves with work and their daily lives.



You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: new NK thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Part of the standard daily propaganda schtick.

And the propaganda is mostly aimed at the N. Korean population, not the USA. Every government needs to have a bigger enemy than its own people and the worse the government, the worse they need to portray their enemies. Look how well it worked for Trump during the campaign - was there any country he portrayed as not our enemy (except Russia)? Europe, Mexico, Canada, China, Japan, both Koreas, every Muslim country. They were all out to get us so we had to elect him to save us.
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Re: new NK thread [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
Part of the standard daily propaganda schtick.

And the propaganda is mostly aimed at the N. Korean population, not the USA. Every government needs to have a bigger enemy than its own people and the worse the government, the worse they need to portray their enemies. Look how well it worked for Trump during the campaign - was there any country he portrayed as not our enemy (except Russia)? Europe, Mexico, Canada, China, Japan, both Koreas, every Muslim country. They were all out to get us so we had to elect him to save us.

Right, and plenty of people have speculated that Trump's comments were intended for his "base", and not North Korea.
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Re: new NK thread [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
Bad idea.

Devil we know vs whatever chucklehead takes his place. He's at least shown some measure of predictability.

We aren't exactly batting 1.000 on regime change either.

I guess you aren't talking about our side here.

-------------------------------------------

http://www.fmcoaching.com
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Re: new NK thread [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Nope.

We at least a have few adults in the room to moderate. I hope.

Suffer Well.
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Re: new NK thread [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Are trump's adult sons running out and signing up?
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Re: new NK thread [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Big Endian wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Beijing is only 500 miles from Pyongyang. I am sure the Chinese leaders are smart enough to understand the ramifications to China if the US is forced to launch a nuclear strike at NK. Between fallout and people scrambling for the borders this could be China's worst nightmare.

Explain how the US would be "forced" to launch a nuclear strike. Someone is holding a gun to the Don's head? NK has basically nothing to lose by launching anything, successful or not. The US would become the biggest pariah state in the world if they launched a nuclear strike at an essentially defenceless (to such a strike) nation, which would be guaranteed to cause massive civilian casualties while doing relatively little to their government. Especially since the US could accomplish the same damage (and possibly do better in terms of hitting strategic targets) without the fallout effects by using conventional explosives, delivered by cruise missile.


If your next door neighbor buys a gun and then publicly states he is going to use it on your family do you sit and wait for the attack? You call the cops and hopefully your neighbor goes to jail.


In the case of NK they have announced "plans" to not only strike Guam but the US as well. The UN has issued sanctions against NK but BFD. Do we wait around until NK launches missiles, having already been given notice that "North Korea said it was reviewing plans to strike U.S. military targets in Guam with medium-range ballistic missiles to create “enveloping fire,” That is an act of war. And if we let our soldiers die, knowing months in advance that NK is going to attack then our top Govt. officials deserve to be hung for stupidity and cowardice.
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We need to assume that NK is acting as a either a proxy for China or that China has no control. The crazy man with his finger on the button in NK is going to use it because he's fucking nuts. Do we wait until Seattle/San Francisco are gone to attack? Do we hope for a coup? How long are you willing to sit and do nothing as NK's threats grow bolder? Or do you think that NK will back down and play nice and if so at what price?

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: new NK thread [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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NK said they are going to fire near Guam not that they are going to attack Guam. Big difference.
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Re: new NK thread [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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NK said they are going to fire near Guam not that they are going to attack Guam. Big difference.

I'd be more worried if they said they are going to miss Guam. With their abilities, the safest place to be would be where they aim...


You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: new NK thread [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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"I'd be more worried if they said they are going to miss Guam. With their abilities, the safest place to be would be where they aim... "



Truth.
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Re: new NK thread [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
NK said they are going to fire near Guam not that they are going to attack Guam. Big difference.

How long are you willing to play chicken with missiles? Given it's Guam maybe you don't care. If one of NK's missiles goes off track and strikes Guam would that be enough for you? Or do people have to die first? If we had the courage to attack NK when they were thinking about building nukes and ICBM's would we be in this situation today? Not bloody likely. Now fast forward with Iran. In a year or two they will have nukes and missiles. What are they thinking today as we appear to be paralyzed and indecisive?

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: new NK thread [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Do we wait around until NK launches missiles, having already been given notice that "North Korea said it was reviewing plans to strike U.S. military targets in Guam with medium-range ballistic missiles to create “enveloping fire,” That is an act of war.

Let's not get carried away. Announcing that you've got plans, is NOT an act of war.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: new NK thread [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
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Do we wait around until NK launches missiles, having already been given notice that "North Korea said it was reviewing plans to strike U.S. military targets in Guam with medium-range ballistic missiles to create “enveloping fire,” That is an act of war.


Let's not get carried away. Announcing that you've got plans, is NOT an act of war.

Why isn't it? If I say I have plans to murder you that's enough to put me in jail. Or do we give NK the benefit of the doubt because they are so stable and reasonable? I am not willing to become a victim. I don't believe NK will stop its acts of aggression because they are ruled by a mad man who has nobody to tell him to stop. My question for those willing to wait is how long? How many have to die before enough is enough?

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: new NK thread [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
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Do we wait around until NK launches missiles, having already been given notice that "North Korea said it was reviewing plans to strike U.S. military targets in Guam with medium-range ballistic missiles to create “enveloping fire,” That is an act of war.


Let's not get carried away. Announcing that you've got plans, is NOT an act of war.


Why isn't it? If I say I have plans to murder you that's enough to put me in jail. Or do we give NK the benefit of the doubt because they are so stable and reasonable? I am not willing to become a victim. I don't believe NK will stop its acts of aggression because they are ruled by a mad man who has nobody to tell him to stop. My question for those willing to wait is how long? How many have to die before enough is enough?

International Law and definitions applicable to war are not the same as domestic law regarding threats or intimidation. And, in general, if I told you I had plans to kill you, I doubt very much that I'd end up in jail. People make those kinds of threats all the time.

That said, an act of war is just that, an act. Nasty statements are not acts of war. An act of war is an action taken by one nation against another during armed conflict or war, or with the intent to provoke armed conflict or war. If N.Korea launches a missile at Guam, with the intent of provoking war with the US, that would be an act of war. If they test a missile, with the declared intent for it to land short of Guam and to display their capabilities, that's probably not an actual act of war. If they simply state, in a press release, that they're reviewing war plans, that's not an act of war.

That's all separate from whether we should or could act.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: new NK thread [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Does NK follow the law? Very often during the war in Yugoslavia I heard "international law this or that". But one side didn't give damn.

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