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Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban?
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     Wanted to do a gun thread distinct of the other. In talking with co-workers, I was surprised at how many agreed with me that a full auto ban is reasonable. Not at all looking to withdraw carry rights or anything else, just don't see enough "need" for the avg citizen to own a fully auto piece for fun, vs the carnage that can ensue if that weapon gets used in anger.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Wanted to do a gun thread distinct of the other. In talking with co-workers, I was surprised at how many agreed with me that a full auto ban is reasonable. Not at all looking to withdraw carry rights or anything else, just don't see enough "need" for the avg citizen to own a fully auto piece for fun, vs the carnage that can ensue if that weapon gets used in anger.

You do know they are already banned don't you?
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Wanted to do a gun thread distinct of the other. In talking with co-workers, I was surprised at how many agreed with me that a full auto ban is reasonable. Not at all looking to withdraw carry rights or anything else, just don't see enough "need" for the avg citizen to own a fully auto piece for fun, vs the carnage that can ensue if that weapon gets used in anger.
Full auto weapons have been banned for over 30 years in the U.S.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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You know who agrees with you? The people who implemented the ban 20+ years ago
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Even if they weren't banned already, a person that is interested enough to have one is certainly going to be interested enough to learn to convert a semi into an auto.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Gee, I better get one now before the ban takes place...

...oh, wait.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
You know who agrees with you? The people who implemented the ban 20+ years ago

Well, they aren’t totally banned. People can still get them but it’s very very difficult to do it legally.

There are places all around Vegas (gun ranges) where you can rent and shoot full auto rifles.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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   What you said. There are special permits for other things as well, like silencers, that I think should stay in place.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:

Well, they aren’t totally banned. People can still get them but it’s very very difficult to do it legally.

There are places all around Vegas (gun ranges) where you can rent and shoot full auto rifles.
The fact that full auto isn't totally and completely illegal in any manner outside of the military is insane to me. I usually side with the right to own but the idea that this shooter could've obtained the weapons he used legally is just unacceptable.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know that much about guns but how hard is it to mod OTC weapons? 3d printing and CNC is pretty cheap now, I wonder how that factors into the equation.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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The fact that full auto isn't totally and completely illegal in any manner outside of the military is insane to me.

Ok. That’s your opinion. I disagree, which is ok.

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the idea that this shooter could've obtained the weapons he used legally is just unacceptable.

At this we have no idea how he got it.

His obtaining of the weapon (if legal) is not what is unacceptable, it’s his chosen use of it that is.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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I highly doubt he used fully automatic weapons. They're rare and expensive.

The military switched from fully automatic rifles (M-16) to 3-shot bursts after Vietnam because it just wasn't possible to shoot accurately on full auto. Firing single aimed shots is still probably preferable to 3-round bursts.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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Sausagetail wrote:
I highly doubt he used fully automatic weapons. They're rare and expensive.

The military switched from fully automatic rifles (M-16) to 3-shot bursts after Vietnam because it just wasn't possible to shoot accurately on full auto. Firing single aimed shots is still probably preferable to 3-round bursts.

The audio from the videos is pretty clear. He wasn't using three round burst.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
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The fact that full auto isn't totally and completely illegal in any manner outside of the military is insane to me.


Ok. That’s your opinion. I disagree, which is ok.

What is the possible use of full auto by a citizen? I typically defend gun owners and their rights in these threads but full auto is my line.

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the idea that this shooter could've obtained the weapons he used legally is just unacceptable.


At this we have no idea how he got it.

His obtaining of the weapon (if legal) is not what is unacceptable, it’s his chosen use of it that is.
Well obviously his means of use is the most unacceptable. He'll probably be found to have had mental health issues, never should've had a weapon, etc. That to me is the biggest issue, our inability to adequately treat mentally unstable people and also keep them away from weapons. BUT, I don't think anyone should be able to get their hands on a full auto weapon.
Last edited by: Brownie28: Oct 2, 17 6:15
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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I highly doubt he used fully automatic weapons. They're rare and expensive.

You can highly doubt it all you want.

It was definitely full auto gun fire.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think anyone should be able to get their hands on a full auto weapon.

Fair enough. That’s a perfectly reasonable position to have.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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After listening to a video, it does sound like full automatic fire. Probably an illegal conversion.

There's really no benefit to automatic fire for military rifles, which is why they removed that option.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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    Type something like "steps to own full auto rifle" in your favorite search engine.
Here's the summary:
STEPS FOR BUYING NFA (CLASS III) WEAPONRY AT TARGET WORLD
(As of 11/3/07)
OVERVIEW:
Laws that went into effect in May, 1986 ma
de it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully
automatic firearms that were manufactured
after
that date. Most fully automatic
weapons manufactured and registered
before
May, 1986 may be owned and sold to
individuals. The full-auto
guns that may be owned by
individuals are called
'transferable'.
To purchase a transferable machine gun,
you must meet certain requirements
(generally the same as when you purchase
another gun), fill out special paperwork
(called a 'Form 4'), and pay a one-time tr
ansfer tax per weapon. The tax is $5.00
for all other weapons (AOW), or $200.00 fo
r a silencer, machin
e-gun, destructive
device, short barreled rifles (SBR),
or short barreled shotguns (SBS).
-
http://targetworld.net/...ponry)%2011-3-07.pdf
Last edited by: dave_w: Oct 2, 17 6:31
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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I remember seeing Class III guns or just the uppers going for $16,000. They're collectors items due to rarity.

It's much easier to do an illegal conversion and even that isn't that easy.

http://www.guncite.com/...ontrol_gcfullau.html
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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This guy didn't need to be accurate in any way. So the automatic definitely added to the carnage.

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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The videos I've seen sounded an awful lot like an AK, which is a sound I know pretty well.

Ban or not, I can modify one of those to full auto in about 11 minutes.

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
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    Found this on actual numbers out there:
Real assault rifles are capable of automatic firing. Therefore, they are regulated by the federal government as machine guns under the Federal Firearms Act of 1934 and the completely misnamed Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986. The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act entirely banned the new manufacture or importation of automatic weapons for civilian use. That left roughly 150,000 registered automatic weapons in private ownership and eligible for transfer between individuals. The transfer of such weapons is handled by the ATF's NFA branch. Basically, anyone wanting to legally own a fully automatic weapon needs $15,000 to over $40,000 to buy a weapon from an already licensed owner willing to sell one of theirs, plus pay a $200 federal transfer tax, plus pass a background investigation of National Agency Check with 10-point fingerprinting.
-
https://www.quora.com/...citizens-to-purchase
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Found this on actual numbers out there:
Real assault rifles are capable of automatic firing. Therefore, they are regulated by the federal government as machine guns under the Federal Firearms Act of 1934 and the completely misnamed Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986. The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act entirely banned the new manufacture or importation of automatic weapons for civilian use. That left roughly 150,000 registered automatic weapons in private ownership and eligible for transfer between individuals. The transfer of such weapons is handled by the ATF's NFA branch. Basically, anyone wanting to legally own a fully automatic weapon needs $15,000 to over $40,000 to buy a weapon from an already licensed owner willing to sell one of theirs, plus pay a $200 federal transfer tax, plus pass a background investigation of National Agency Check with 10-point fingerprinting.
-
https://www.quora.com/...citizens-to-purchase

Yea like someone else said. This asshole probably modded an assault rifle to be fully automatic.
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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Sausagetail wrote:
After listening to a video, it does sound like full automatic fire. Probably an illegal conversion.

There's really no benefit to automatic fire for military rifles, which is why they removed that option.

There are, however, plenty of advantages to fully automatic machine guns in the military, which is why we still have things like the M60 or M240 which fires the same rounds as an AK-47, for example. We don't know what weapons this guy had, except that the one he seemed to be firing in the video sounds like a fully automatic weapon.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Full-Auto weapons, Time to Ban? [len] [ In reply to ]
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He's shooting in a very rare situation though. If he used an assault rifle it was probably underpowered and not accurate enough at those distances. The only reason it worked was because everyone was packed together. If he had to aim at individual people he would've had a hard time. I think a scoped, bolt action hunting rifle would've worked just as well or better.

The idea that only the military needs full automatic is flawed though because the military's assault rifles aren't full auto.
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