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Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important?
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I'm asking this honestly to learn something. As a left-leaning northerner, I don't understand why illegal immigration is as big an issue as it is for some people.

Obviously, we want to stop terrorists or criminals from coming to the country. No question there. But assuming the immigrant pays taxes and is a good member of society, why is it so important to some people that the person be deported?

I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today). And there are laws that are so antiquated everyone ignores them (atheists can't legally run for office in several states). If the only issue were that it's against the law, then it makes more sense to change the law, but I don't hear arguments to make legal immigration easier. I hear making illegal immigration harder.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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Start at the other extreme. No immigration laws. Anyone and everyone can come to [insert country here]. Is that workable? No. So you need immigration laws, and therefore enforced borders.

Then you have to deal with those who enter illegally. Or overstay their legal stay period. Then things get more complicated. But if you never deport illegal immigrants, you're basically saying, "come on in!"
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today).

Which laws would you keep and which would you ignore and who decides that?


You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Start at the other extreme. No immigration laws. Anyone and everyone can come to [insert country here]. Is that workable? No. So you need immigration laws, and therefore enforced borders.




An argument could be made that that's exactly what made this country great. If the pilgrims would have had the desire and ability to restrict immigration we would have never gotten to where we are today.


The right claims to support free markets but are very quick to restrict the labor market.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure it depends on who you ask. A lot of people just don't like any one who is different. It's the old us and them, and them is threatening.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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Not my arguments but I'll throw out a few that Ive heard.

1. Illegal Immigrants can work one of two ways, 'acquire' a citizens identification or get paid under the table. Guarantee that those getting paid under the table aren't rushing out to get their 1040's in on time. While they do pay sales tax, there is still an overall net loss to communities from having to support illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants still have access to the majority of services that a citizen does, only they don't have to pay for them.

2. In an ideal world, only 'good' people looking to immigrate would come. We know that isn't true. How many murders, rapes, robberies, etc are acceptable to justify the presence of the good ones who 'aren't supposed to be here anyway'?

3. Some people are just racist pricks.

Again, not my arguments (although I can agree with #3).
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Start at the other extreme. No immigration laws. Anyone and everyone can come to [insert country here]. Is that workable? No. So you need immigration laws, and therefore enforced borders.

Then you have to deal with those who enter illegally. Or overstay their legal stay period. Then things get more complicated. But if you never deport illegal immigrants, you're basically saying, "come on in!"

It's my understanding that the US did have a "come on in" policy until the Chinese exclusion law in the late 1800's. But there's nothing to say you can't have reasonably secure borders and a reasonably simple path to citizenship for people who demonstrate they're good member of society, right?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today).

Which laws would you keep and which would you ignore and who decides that?

In general or for immigration in particular? I don't know immigration laws well enough to answer. The legislature usually decides which laws are passed.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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Why have laws that you won't enforce?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
Not my arguments but I'll throw out a few that Ive heard.

1. Illegal Immigrants can work one of two ways, 'acquire' a citizens identification or get paid under the table. Guarantee that those getting paid under the table aren't rushing out to get their 1040's in on time. While they do pay sales tax, there is still an overall net loss to communities from having to support illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants still have access to the majority of services that a citizen does, only they don't have to pay for them.

2. In an ideal world, only 'good' people looking to immigrate would come. We know that isn't true. How many murders, rapes, robberies, etc are acceptable to justify the presence of the good ones who 'aren't supposed to be here anyway'?

3. Some people are just racist pricks.

Again, not my arguments (although I can agree with #3).

Right. The answer to #1 seems to me to be to get the person into the system as quickly as possible and paying full taxes.

I'm not so naive to think this isn't a complex issue, but if you have someone willing to contribute to the tax base who isn't a criminal, I don't understand why we don't legalize them as quickly as possible.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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It's important because it gets people elected. Has there ever been a wave of immigrants who weren't disliked?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [nc452010] [ In reply to ]
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nc452010 wrote:
Why have laws that you won't enforce?

He would counter, why have the law if you aren't enforcing it?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today).

Which laws would you keep and which would you ignore and who decides that?

In general or for immigration in particular? I don't know immigration laws well enough to answer. The legislature usually decides which laws are passed.

You base your argument on the fact that since people break speeding laws, it should be okay to break other laws so I asked which laws are okay to break and who gets to decide that?

Wouldn't it be better to say you have to obey all laws, even if some people try to break them. If you make it optional, there really isn't any point in having them in the first place. The emphasis should be on enforcing the laws that exist and if they aren't enforced, get rid of them.

In other words, people enter illegally, it means they broke the law and the laws against that should be applied. Some will get away with it just like some get away with every law, but that doesn't mean you throw them out. If the laws as they exist were enforced from Day 1, you wouldn't have the problem that now exists.


You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [nc452010] [ In reply to ]
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nc452010 wrote:
Why have laws that you won't enforce?

Why have laws that are ineffective or counterproductive?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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An argument could be made that that's exactly what made this country great.

Yeah, you could make that argument, that illegal immigration is what makes this country great. You could also make the argument that the earth is flat.

Disclaimer: the above statements are parody and meant for entertainment purposes only. No sane person would actually hold such views.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
nhunter344 wrote:
Not my arguments but I'll throw out a few that Ive heard.

1. Illegal Immigrants can work one of two ways, 'acquire' a citizens identification or get paid under the table. Guarantee that those getting paid under the table aren't rushing out to get their 1040's in on time. While they do pay sales tax, there is still an overall net loss to communities from having to support illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants still have access to the majority of services that a citizen does, only they don't have to pay for them.

2. In an ideal world, only 'good' people looking to immigrate would come. We know that isn't true. How many murders, rapes, robberies, etc are acceptable to justify the presence of the good ones who 'aren't supposed to be here anyway'?

3. Some people are just racist pricks.

Again, not my arguments (although I can agree with #3).


Right. The answer to #1 seems to me to be to get the person into the system as quickly as possible and paying full taxes.

I'm not so naive to think this isn't a complex issue, but if you have someone willing to contribute to the tax base who isn't a criminal, I don't understand why we don't legalize them as quickly as possible.

Lots of people just don't want anyone here who is different. I grew up around racism, there was nothing sophisticated about it or actually particularly virulent either. They just didn't want people around who were considered other. At the time it was black people, now lots of Hispanics live where I grew up and they don't want those "Mexicans" there either.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today).

Which laws would you keep and which would you ignore and who decides that?

In general or for immigration in particular? I don't know immigration laws well enough to answer. The legislature usually decides which laws are passed.

You base your argument on the fact that since people break speeding laws, it should be okay to break other laws so I asked which laws are okay to break and who gets to decide that?

Wouldn't it be better to say you have to obey all laws, even if some people try to break them. If you make it optional, there really isn't any point in having them in the first place. The emphasis should be on enforcing the laws that exist and if they aren't enforced, get rid of them.

In other words, people enter illegally, it means they broke the law and the laws against that should be applied. Some will get away with it just like some get away with every law, but that doesn't mean you throw them out. If the laws as they exist were enforced from Day 1, you wouldn't have the problem that now exists.

Ah, then I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't saying that since everyone speeds then everyone should be able to pick which laws to follow. I meant that people who use the argument that we should deport illegal immigrants because it's the law are clearly cherry picking the laws they feel should be followed.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
I'm asking this honestly to learn something. As a left-leaning northerner, I don't understand why illegal immigration is as big an issue as it is for some people.

Obviously, we want to stop terrorists or criminals from coming to the country. No question there. But assuming the immigrant pays taxes and is a good member of society, why is it so important to some people that the person be deported?

I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today). And there are laws that are so antiquated everyone ignores them (atheists can't legally run for office in several states). If the only issue were that it's against the law, then it makes more sense to change the law, but I don't hear arguments to make legal immigration easier. I hear making illegal immigration harder.

Ask yourself this, why is the US the only country in the world that shouldn't have immigrations law? Spain, England, Iran, North Korea etc.have immigration laws that they enforce, why shouldn't the US?

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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
swimwithstones wrote:
I'm asking this honestly to learn something. As a left-leaning northerner, I don't understand why illegal immigration is as big an issue as it is for some people.

Obviously, we want to stop terrorists or criminals from coming to the country. No question there. But assuming the immigrant pays taxes and is a good member of society, why is it so important to some people that the person be deported?

I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today). And there are laws that are so antiquated everyone ignores them (atheists can't legally run for office in several states). If the only issue were that it's against the law, then it makes more sense to change the law, but I don't hear arguments to make legal immigration easier. I hear making illegal immigration harder.


Ask yourself this, why is the US the only country in the world that shouldn't have immigrations law? Spain, England, Iran, North Korea etc.have immigration laws that they enforce, why shouldn't the US?

I don't think I said the US should have no immigration laws. I think it should. My question is why are many people more intent on deporting illegal immigrants than changing the law to make them citizens more quickly?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
Billabong wrote:
swimwithstones wrote:
I'm asking this honestly to learn something. As a left-leaning northerner, I don't understand why illegal immigration is as big an issue as it is for some people.

Obviously, we want to stop terrorists or criminals from coming to the country. No question there. But assuming the immigrant pays taxes and is a good member of society, why is it so important to some people that the person be deported?

I've heard the argument that "it's the law," but I have trouble believing that because there are several laws that everyone breaks all the time (you probably broke the speed limit to get to work today). And there are laws that are so antiquated everyone ignores them (atheists can't legally run for office in several states). If the only issue were that it's against the law, then it makes more sense to change the law, but I don't hear arguments to make legal immigration easier. I hear making illegal immigration harder.


Ask yourself this, why is the US the only country in the world that shouldn't have immigrations law? Spain, England, Iran, North Korea etc.have immigration laws that they enforce, why shouldn't the US?


I don't think I said the US should have no immigration laws. I think it should. My question is why are many people more intent on deporting illegal immigrants than changing the law to make them citizens more quickly?

Besides the illegality argument, the racism, there is also the not wanting to share a slice of the pie aspect too.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
I'm not so naive to think this isn't a complex issue, but if you have someone willing to contribute to the tax base who isn't a criminal, I don't understand why we don't legalize them as quickly as possible.

I have no issues with immigration, but I think the qualifications for legal status should be slightly higher than being able to sneak past the border patrol. If lack of documented criminal history and the ability to step foot on U.S. soil are the only criteria, may as well just open the border.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
swimwithstones wrote:
I'm not so naive to think this isn't a complex issue, but if you have someone willing to contribute to the tax base who isn't a criminal, I don't understand why we don't legalize them as quickly as possible.


I have no issues with immigration, but I think the qualifications for legal status should be slightly higher than being able to sneak past the border patrol. If lack of documented criminal history and the ability to step foot on U.S. soil are the only criteria, may as well just open the border.

If a background check reveals no criminal record (granted, there's a big asterisk on that "If"), why not allow them to become a citizen, get a job, pay taxes and contribute to our GDP?
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
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An argument could be made that that's exactly what made this country great.


Yeah, you could make that argument, that illegal immigration is what makes this country great. You could also make the argument that the earth is flat.

The argument isn't about illegal immigration, it's about an open immigration policy. A great deal of this country was built by immigrants that weren't wanted here by the established population.
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
swimwithstones wrote:
I'm not so naive to think this isn't a complex issue, but if you have someone willing to contribute to the tax base who isn't a criminal, I don't understand why we don't legalize them as quickly as possible.


I have no issues with immigration, but I think the qualifications for legal status should be slightly higher than being able to sneak past the border patrol. If lack of documented criminal history and the ability to step foot on U.S. soil are the only criteria, may as well just open the border.


This was my original point. If you say "all illegal immigrants (who haven't broken the law) can legally assimilate to become citizens" then you are basically saying, sneak in undetected, announce your arrival, and soon you can become a citizen.

But as sections of Europe are now discovering, there can be painful consequences to a very porous border. Communities can be disrupted, government finances put under strain, labor markets affected...

The success of immigrants (both themselves and for the society they enter), can depend on many things: the similarities in language, culture, skillsets and expectations they have. How much can they contribute in terms of skills and paying taxes? Will they be a net contributor or a drain on resources. Can they be a productive member of society?

FOR THE OP: Imagine you are in charge. You set immigration policies. Would you allow any illegal immigrants to quickly become citizens? What about future illegal immigrants? Where do you draw the line? How strictly do you enforce the border?
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Sep 11, 17 10:55
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Re: Why Is Deporting Illegal Immigrants So Important? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Quote:
An argument could be made that that's exactly what made this country great.


Yeah, you could make that argument, that illegal immigration is what makes this country great. You could also make the argument that the earth is flat.

The argument isn't about illegal immigration, it's about an open immigration policy. A great deal of this country was built by immigrants that weren't wanted here by the established population.

Yes, you could argue for a more open immigration policy, which I have done here consistently. But you have to have a policy, which we do have, and that policy has to be enforced, which includes deportation.

Don't like the law? CHANGE THE FUCKING LAW. In meantime, enforce existing law to fullest extent you possibly can.

Disclaimer: the above statements are parody and meant for entertainment purposes only. No sane person would actually hold such views.
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