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Who knew North Korea could be so hard?
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It would be funny if it weren't so sad.


http://thehill.com/...ized-its-not-so-easy

President Trump acknowledged the complexity and political sensitivity of the relationship between China and North Korea this week after Chinese President Xi Jinping explained the countries' relationship to him.

Trump told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday that he was previously convinced China had "tremendous power" over North Korea. But after meeting with Xi last week, Trump said he "realized it's not so easy."


"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Trump said. “I felt pretty strongly that [China] had a tremendous power over North Korea. But it’s not what you would think.”

Ahead of his meeting with Xi last week, Trump vowed to pressure the Chinese leader to take a tougher approach to North Korea.

We are so fucked.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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More evidence that his position on issues isn't well-founded in the least and that pretty much the last person he's talked to about an issue holds sway.

Not a bad thing that he can change positions on a given issue but worrisome that he appears to have little basis for his positions in the first place and is easily persuaded.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Ahead of his meeting with Xi last week, Trump vowed to pressure the Chinese leader to take a tougher approach to North Korea.

He succeeded.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/...m_term=.e4e7201be841








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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The guy's like a blank slate. None of his opinions, no matter who forcefully he articulates them, appear to be strongly held. In a way, that's a good thing, as it means he's open to changing them. But on the other hand, it could also mean that he's easily swayed by whoever has his ear.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
The guy's like a blank slate. None of his opinions, no matter who forcefully he articulates them, appear to be strongly held. In a way, that's a good thing, as it means he's open to changing them. But on the other hand, it could also mean that he's easily swayed by whoever has his ear.

Right and I have little faith that his newly held opinion is much more well-founded than the first.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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I initially laughed, in a sad head shaking kind of way, but in context, I can see the bit that he over-estimated is the China control over Kim. I would have considered China as having an incredibly strong hand, and if that is not the case, would have probably learned something as well. Of course that takes for granted that whatever Xi told him is not already well known in our intelligence community, which it may be, given Trump's apparent lack of prep for almost any situation he enters!
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Coincidentally China is no longer a money manipulator anymore. Thanks Trump!

Well, the reality is nothing has changed for years. But why not take credit for it, your suc...supporters will believe it.

Why do I hear the sound of sandals?
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Well put. I think the story is inaccurate though. I have trouble seeing Trump listen to anyone for ten minutes.

dave_w wrote:
I initially laughed, in a sad head shaking kind of way, but in context, I can see the bit that he over-estimated is the China control over Kim. I would have considered China as having an incredibly strong hand, and if that is not the case, would have probably learned something as well. Of course that takes for granted that whatever Xi told him is not already well known in our intelligence community, which it may be, given Trump's apparent lack of prep for almost any situation he enters!

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
Well put. I think the story is inaccurate though. I have trouble seeing Trump listen to anyone for ten minutes.

In his defense, he does read Twitter. So if they'd just send it 140 characters at a time, he'd be able to learn a lot more.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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"Coincidentally China is no longer a money manipulator anymore."

you noticed that? for decades, over several administrations, we knew that china was a money manipulator. if you think that china is the reason your jobs are gone, there are several reasons but currency manipulation is the single biggest. total capitulation in one meeting.

america first? i just don't know how much more winning i can stand.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Trump told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday that he was previously convinced China had "tremendous power" over North Korea. But after meeting with Xi last week, Trump said he "realized it's not so easy."

If he talks to North Korea, he might change his mind again because then they will be the last person he spoke with...

I also wonder if he also realizes it is China that's providing NK with the technology and hardware for the missiles. China's main aim is to prevent NK from being unified so I wouldn't put as much faith in what they say as Trump.

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
Last edited by: Sanuk: Apr 13, 17 16:09
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Currency manipulation had been China's game for decades. However, 2016/2017 is very different than the 90's or even 2010.
This is another case of Trump being late to the party, but the evidence for recent Chinese currency manipulation has gone away...


Last edited by: SH: Apr 13, 17 17:43
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Trump told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday that he was previously convinced China had "tremendous power" over North Korea. But after meeting with Xi last week, Trump said he "realized it's not so easy."

If he talks to North Korea, he might change his mind again because then they will be the last person he spoke with...

I also wonder if he also realizes it is China that's providing NK with the technology and hardware for the missiles. China's main aim is to prevent NK from being unified so I wouldn't put as much faith in what they say as Trump.
Also, now is the time of the full on cat and mouse chess match (and every other idiom we can throw in). Trump needs to be perceived at his absolute most unpredictable -- thank you Tomahawks and MOABs. The Chinese need to be given the most operating leeway. The North Koreans need to be not knowing what's coming. It may be a ploy to question Chinese power and weight in their own backyard. How could the Chinese prove Trump wrong and show strength to the world? Hmmmmm...
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [SH] [ In reply to ]
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i hear you. but from a guy who takes nothing off the table? either every single thing he said about china during the election was a lie, or he's a complete no-nothing, or he's a horrible negotiator, or there's a quid pro quo re north korea that china will execute that will tell me he knows something i don't know. i guess we'll see.

but it seems clear all of his rhetoric about china during the election - and i think this was his strongest point, more than immigration - is now poof, gone. do you see any evidence he's going to get tough with china? just by the optics, he got pwned by xi.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i hear you. but from a guy who takes nothing off the table? either every single thing he said about china during the election was a lie, or he's a complete no-nothing, or he's a horrible negotiator, or there's a quid pro quo re north korea that china will execute that will tell me he knows something i don't know. i guess we'll see.

but it seems clear all of his rhetoric about china during the election - and i think this was his strongest point, more than immigration - is now poof, gone. do you see any evidence he's going to get tough with china? just by the optics, he got pwned by xi.

Fair enough. I think folks will give Trump a negotiating pass if things materially improve w/ regards to North Korea -- and that's still a real long shot IMO. I've got no idea how this is going to play out. Putting aside the whole campaign full of lies for a moment, I do think Trump's style of negotiating is better than we normally get in these situations. However, "better" doesn't mean magical. This NK situation is extremely dangerous and am hoping like hell it all works out.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
China's main aim is to prevent NK from being unified so I wouldn't put as much faith in what they say as Trump.

For my education, why doesn't China want a unified Korea? I would think if North Korea emerged from the dark ages, it would present a big market for them. It would take a few years for them to recover, but a unified Germany is doing well.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Trieatalot] [ In reply to ]
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Trieatalot wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
China's main aim is to prevent NK from being unified so I wouldn't put as much faith in what they say as Trump.


For my education, why doesn't China want a unified Korea? I would think if North Korea emerged from the dark ages, it would present a big market for them. It would take a few years for them to recover, but a unified Germany is doing well.

Refugees and accusations they assisted a country in committing genocide on its own people. But mostly refugees. NK collapse would destabilize at least two countries and the Asian market. Those troops the Chinese are rumored to have sent to the Yalu are there for one reason, to keep the undesirables out.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Trieatalot] [ In reply to ]
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Trieatalot wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
China's main aim is to prevent NK from being unified so I wouldn't put as much faith in what they say as Trump.


For my education, why doesn't China want a unified Korea? I would think if North Korea emerged from the dark ages, it would present a big market for them. It would take a few years for them to recover, but a unified Germany is doing well.

Read a good article but can't remember the author - but the jist is that South Korea wouldn't want a unified country. S.K. is finally emerging and what are they going to do with millions with no usable skills if unified. It would be much harder to unify the two Korea's than the two Germany's.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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It would be much harder to unify the two Korea's than the two Germany's.

Okay, so what is the goal? It appears we are reduced to complaining without any clear goal (realistic or not).
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Trieatalot] [ In reply to ]
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For my education, why doesn't China want a unified Korea? I would think if North Korea emerged from the dark ages, it would present a big market for them.


China's main concern would be that unified Korea would be allies of the U.S., and they don't want a nuclear power next door. They want North Korea there to act as a buffer against the U.S ally in South Korea. That's why China often acts as if they will act tough against NK but behind closed doors, they are the ones providing the technology and hardware to be able to build a nuclear weapon.


If they are telling Trump they will enact sanctions against North Korea, they are bluffing.

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
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It would be much harder to unify the two Korea's than the two Germany's.


Okay, so what is the goal? It appears we are reduced to complaining without any clear goal (realistic or not).

I was going to answer that if I knew that I'd be elected president. But then I realized not.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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i just don't know how much more winning i can stand.

"Believe me, we will be winning. There'll be so much winning" - Donald Trump

It's pretty safe to say that Trump is in WAY over his head with hyper sensitive international situations like North Korea. "We'll bomb the shit out of them" - (again quoting Trump) - plays well to Trump's base, who seem to live in a perpetual good-guys/bad-guys John Wayne Western movie. Unfortunately, that's NOT the way the world works these days. These international points of contention and conflict, are extraordinarily complicated.


For every action, there is always other often very negative reactions.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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And for every inaction agianst North Korea there have been negative reactions which have led to North Korea developing nukes.

Decades of inaction have not brought North Korea any closer to playing nicely on the world stage.

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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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And for every inaction agianst North Korea there have been negative reactions which have led to North Korea developing nukes.

Decades of inaction have not brought North Korea any closer to playing nicely on the world stage.


I don't disagree. However, unilateral U.S. aggressive action against, North Korea (which Trump has very dangerously hinted at), is sure to irrupt a hornets nest of reactions from multiple directions in the region. What will happen then?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Apr 15, 17 10:02
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Human catastrophe, which everyone believes will happen on the Korean peninsula regardless of action or inaction.

Trumps hints at unilateral action hopefully will hasten the rest of the world community to do something, anything.

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