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This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember
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The Pence visit was just too convenient for me. Maybe by this Thursday, but for sure by Sunday, the NFL is going to take a tough stance on the anthem kneeling. Some players aren't going to be allowed on the field for their pre-game actions and that's going to start a domino effect with the players union that will end with no games being played or many stars missing. I could be wrong, but I think the end of allowing this action is near and The Donald is going to be the winner on this issue.

For those of you that love the NFL what will it be like if your star QB or RB or receiver is not on the field by choice? Will you still watch?

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Well seeing as polls show the NFL is now the second most popular sport in America, they have to do something.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
Well seeing as polls show the NFL is now the second most popular sport in America, they have to do something.
so what's the first?

from afar, it's a surprise for us that the NFL season is so short, but then again, when basically every player on the field is involved in a full body collision on every play, maybe the surprise should be that the players actually survive the season.

Why is it in the land of the free... to be able to have free speech, personal liberty, freedom of thought etc etc, that there is no freedom of behaviour toward your national anthem or flag or whatever.
if one is allowed to choose what personal conceal weapon they can carry, choose what representative to send in to government, choose whether to wear a baseball hat indoors or not, to choose what religion to, or not to believe in, then why is there no choice as to ones posture during the playing of the national anthem.
would I prefer all of us Ozzies to stand during the playing of the anthem? absolutely, but if you're going to choose to sit it out, then surely that's ok.
Same with our flag... There's conversations about changing our flag, and always there's the same old story " my father fought for this flag" ....
No he didn't, he fought for the country, and this flag is a representation of this country, it is not the country itself.
If Australia changed our name to Gwendolaland or Whatever and the flag changed to red and yellow stripes, it would still be the same country, the name and flags are just representations of the country, the people the soul of the country.

anyway, as I said, I'll always stand to attention for any counties anthem ( and I can't tell you how many times I had to stand for the USA anthem at the FINA World Champs in Budapest in July '17) but not every one does. and I'm ok with that.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Probably back to the CFL then. More exciting game anyhow

Jim
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
The Pence visit was just too convenient for me. Maybe by this Thursday, but for sure by Sunday, the NFL is going to take a tough stance on the anthem kneeling. Some players aren't going to be allowed on the field for their pre-game actions and that's going to start a domino effect with the players union that will end with no games being played or many stars missing. I could be wrong, but I think the end of allowing this action is near and The Donald is going to be the winner on this issue.

For those of you that love the NFL what will it be like if your star QB or RB or receiver is not on the field by choice? Will you still watch?

Not a chance.

- Pence is getting plenty of blow-back for staging an expensive walk out

- The NFL would be shooting itself in the foot and $s are more important to them than any flag protests

- It's a free country, or at least last time I checked

...the only people with any power to influence the players are the team's themselves, because they pay them. So maybe it could escalate a bit more if players were threatened with docked pay if the don't respect the team's code of conduct (or however they may phrase it), and then the union gets involved. But I don't see Pence's stunt as moving the needle much.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [Avago] [ In reply to ]
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that there is no freedom of behaviour toward your national anthem or flag or whatever.


Am I missing something where players were arrested? Am I missing something where people state they broke laws? They have the freedom and are exercising it, and it's not exactly going their way (although I think the victory or the debate on the other side is a little over hyped). They have the freedom to do it, fans have a freedom to dislike it, team owners have a right to not allow it as a private organization (if it comes to that). Everyone is acting within their rights. But that doesn't mean every thing comes out all hunky-dory.

I have the freedom to be an a-hole to everyone I meet, but I can't get mad when people don't like me.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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So you think this is how its going to play out?

NFL: "Hey black people, I know you have a union, put your health at risk by playing a dangerous sport, and are the sole reason why people pay money for this sport, but we are going to require you to stand for the national anthem on the field with the cameras on because we are getting pressure from that President that you all think is a white supremacist."


Not in a million years. Ain't gonna happen.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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KG6 wrote:
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that there is no freedom of behaviour toward your national anthem or flag or whatever.


Am I missing something where players were arrested? Am I missing something where people state they broke laws? They have the freedom and are exercising it, and it's not exactly going their way (although I think the victory or the debate on the other side is a little over hyped). They have the freedom to do it, fans have a freedom to dislike it, team owners have a right to not allow it as a private organization (if it comes to that). Everyone is acting within their rights. But that doesn't mean every thing comes out all hunky-dory.

I have the freedom to be an a-hole to everyone I meet, but I can't get mad when people don't like me.

I think the thing the NFL is concerned with is loss of revenue and push back from its traditional fan base. The NFL hoped that this situation would go away. It hasn't. I believe that a majority of the owners want to make a stand but have been afraid. Then there is this just in:

"Here’s is how the decrepit and frankly hard to look at billionaire responded to a question about national anthem protests, and specifically about how two Cowboys players stood during the anthem with raised fists, per the Dallas Morning News:
“I don’t know about that. But if there is anything that is disrespectful to the flag then we will not play,” Jones said after the Cowboys’ 35-31 loss. “You understand? If we are disrespecting the flag then we won’t play. Period.
“We’re going to respect the flag, and I’m going to create the perception of it. And we have.”


One of you needs to tell me this; when is a protest a flag disrespecting protest vs. the opposite? Had Kap been picked up over the summer by anyone would we be experiencing this week to week drama? I think not.


"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
So you think this is how its going to play out?

NFL: "Hey black people, I know you have a union, put your health at risk by playing a dangerous sport, and are the sole reason why people pay money for this sport, but we are going to require you to stand for the national anthem on the field with the cameras on because we are getting pressure from that President that you all think is a white supremacist."


Not in a million years. Ain't gonna happen.

What about:

NFL: Hey black multi-millionaires, are you ready to take a pay cut?
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [SH] [ In reply to ]
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What about:

NFL: Hey black multi-millionaires, are you ready to take a pay cut?


You simply don't get it, do you? The owners can't just *decide* what they want to do with the players. The players are the talent and they've got a union. IE, the NFL has to keep them happy. They can't just "make them stand or be punished" anymore than my company can do that to its employees.

This isn't unskilled labor.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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They can't just "make them stand or be punished" anymore than my company can do that to its employees.

It's a two way street. Even at that level. They only get paid the money they do because of the loyalty of fans to teams. You start negatively affecting their revenue, then you don't have the same footing to make your union demands.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don't know much because I don't watch football much but it seems that the NFL treats its players more like plug-ins than other sports. Given they have huge rosters etc. I almost think that you could fire the lot of them (I'm not advocating that) and reconstitute the league from college prospects and also rans and most people would keep watching. The whole flag thing is definitely an uniquely American thing as the Aussie poster pointed out.

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, they can. It's entirely within the owners' and the league's authority to punish the players for not standing for the anthem. There is a players union, yes. There are also rules to which players can be held to account.

Whether or not the owners decide to go that route is up to them, and will, as always, come down to a financial decision on their part.

From the NFL:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."











"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don't know much because I don't watch football much but it seems that the NFL treats its players more like plug-ins than other sports. Given they have huge rosters etc. I almost think that you could fire the lot of them (I'm not advocating that) and reconstitute the league from college prospects and also rans and most people would keep watching. The whole flag thing is definitely an uniquely American thing as the Aussie poster pointed out.

interestingly, i think NFLers also have among the shortest average careers of the major sports. so outside of a few more durable positions, your opportunities to get attached to many players over the long-term is limited.

anyway, my feeling is that football was on the way out before this. the brain injury stuff keeps mounting, and fewer people are interested in having their kids play. (it's an expensive sport for kids, too.) i can imagine a not-so-distant future in which is a more niche gladiatorial event like pay-per-view boxing or something.

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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
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What about:

NFL: Hey black multi-millionaires, are you ready to take a pay cut?



You simply don't get it, do you? The owners can't just *decide* what they want to do with the players. The players are the talent and they've got a union. IE, the NFL has to keep them happy. They can't just "make them stand or be punished" anymore than my company can do that to its employees.

This isn't unskilled labor.

Do you know how business works? Alienating a good portion of your fan base comes with consequences. Less revenue will mean less money for everyone in the NFL. Everyone includes the players btw.

And all because Donald Trump has a big mouth? OK.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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"Yes, they can. It's entirely within the owners' and the league's authority to punish the players for not standing for the anthem. There is a players union, yes. There are also rules to which players can be held to account. "


Missing the point. They can try. That doesn't mean that they will be successful.


The point being, the owners don't actually *own* the players. They can't just *make* them do things that the players don't want to do. Even if its in the contract, contracts can be forced to be renegotiated.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Moving goalposts.

Nobody can make anyone else do anything. The owners can fine or bench players who refuse to stand for the anthem.

You're wrong, that's all.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [SH] [ In reply to ]
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Do you know how business works? Alienating a good portion of your fan base comes with consequences. Less revenue will mean less money for everyone in the NFL. Everyone includes the players btw.


Yes, I also realize that strikes are bad for business, yet strikes happen. Just because something will lose money doesn't mean that the players won't do it. You have to view this from the stand point of a black person who's tired of seeing their people harassed by police and not a Republican who only cares about the troops and profits.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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According to the NFL Players Association the average career for a player is just over 3 years. These guys are eminently replaceable, with the exception of a couple of superstars (Brady, Rodgers). As Seinfeld said, the fans just root for laundry.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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"Moving goalposts. "


I'm not moving goalposts at all. I never meant that the owners don't "have the ability within the rules." If you want to stick to your guns and say that THAT statement is incorrect, I won't argue with you.


And I sure as fuck don't want to spend 5 pages going back and forth on whether or not that's what I meant, so please just drop it. I mean that they don't have the *power* to simply just enact whatever rules they want to without having to deal with greater consequences that they'd rather not deal with.




........didn't think I'd have to explain all of that.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [PrinceMax] [ In reply to ]
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According to the NFL Players Association the average career for a player is just over 3 years. These guys are eminently replaceable, with the exception of a couple of superstars (Brady, Rodgers). As Seinfeld said, the fans just root for laundry.


Again, this assumes that the NFL can just do what they want to players without consequences. Players X, Y, and Z may be replaceable, but if the rest of the NFL players come to find out that players are getting let go because they won't stand for the anthem, do you really think this will sit well with them?


I've got news for you guys. If the NFL could just *make* them stand, don't you think they would have done it already?

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:

Missing the point. They can try. That doesn't mean that they will be successful.

The point being, the owners don't actually *own* the players. They can't just *make* them do things that the players don't want to do. Even if its in the contract, contracts can be forced to be renegotiated.



Two weeks ago hundreds of players knelt during the anthem to "protest". Last week and yesterday less than 20% of those who did two weeks ago knelt during the anthem. Would you not consider that successful?




.
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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"They have the freedom to do it, fans have a freedom to dislike it, team owners have a right to not allow it as a private organization (if it comes to that). Everyone is acting within their rights. "

I don't think anyone thinks its within their rights.

There's two issues:


1) I think a lot of us have an issue with coerced patriotism coming from a multimillion dollar company which is, for all intents and purposes, a monopoly. It stinks of what happens/happened in countries like Japan, USSR, and Nazi Germany.


2) Whether or not it is within their *rights* to do so as a semi-private organization (there is a lot of public funding involved, not to mention the contract that they have with the DoD), that doesn't mean that they can necessarily act against the common interests of the players union. The NFL may have the *right* to fire/punish players for not standing during the anthem as a protest against police brutality toward blacks, but they don't have the right to do it without consequence, which may be as sever as a strike.


Again, if it was as simple as firing anyone who doesn't stand, I think they would have done it by now.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [SH] [ In reply to ]
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Here is what a non football fan would think was going on:

Some players- were protesting something that might have had something to do with civil rights.

The boycotters- were protesting the players protesting something that "is not real", and maybe, somehow, are really disrespecting something that might be important to someone in the process.

And Trump and Pence - are protesting that the boycotters are forgetting to
protest against the players, who are protesting against something that might have had something to do with civil rights, but "wasn't real" and was really somehow how disrespecting something that someone might have thought was important to think was important.

Yeah ........this is super memorable.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Oct 9, 17 13:41
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Re: This is the week NFL and Anthem lovers will remember [El Jefe] [ In reply to ]
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"Two weeks ago hundreds of players knelt during the anthem to "protest". Last week and yesterday less than 20% of those who did two weeks ago knelt during the anthem. Would you not consider that successful? "


Did the NFL threaten to fire them?

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
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