Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt...
Quote | Reply
From the new 'Hire American, Buy American' Executive Order? I do not see him giving up millions of dollars of potential income since he continually states he can not have a conflict of interest as president.

"Businesses run and owned by Trump and his adult children have been certified to legally hire 1,371 foreign visa workers since 2001, a CNN analysis of visa records shows. In addition, Trump-branded real estate has raised at least $50 million in foreign investor money through a program that gives foreign investors access to green cards, according to the company that did the development of the real estate."

http://www.cnn.com/...ion-visas/index.html

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment.
True, but his actions as POTUS come across as "Do as I say, not as I do."



Some say "I can". Others say "I can't". Both manage to be correct.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.

As a businessman, why would he eliminate a program that has allowed him to realize millions in revenues? If he truly believes it is the right thing to do for the country, why was he playing the loophole game in the first place? It is just another case of him having no discernible moral or ethical compass. I don't have a problem with him being a business man or playing the loophole game. I do have a problem with him taking a morally superior position when he has been guilty of the very behavior he is railing against now. Perhaps this is just another example of the born again syndrome.

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I take advantage of certain benefits because my business is owned (51%) by my wife (womens owned business).

I don't agree that womens owned businesses should get special considerations and if I could change the law and eliminate those adavantages I would.

In the meantime I'm going to take advantage of every legal option I have to maximize my business interests.

Why is this so hard to understand?

It's only smellz.

- Rocco Siffredi
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wasusnowme wrote:
As a businessman, why would he eliminate a program that has allowed him to realize millions in revenues? If he truly believes it is the right thing to do for the country, why was he playing the loophole game in the first place? It is just another case of him having no discernible moral or ethical compass. I don't have a problem with him being a business man or playing the loophole game. I do have a problem with him taking a morally superior position when he has been guilty of the very behavior he is railing against now. Perhaps this is just another example of the born again syndrome.
Perfect example: I happen to think federal grants and loans for college are killing young people and severely handicapping them out of college, artificially inflating the cost of school and saddling them with tons of debt. When I was in school the issue wasn't nearly as bad but I wound up with about $20K in student loans, mostly federal. Did I play the game? Yes. Would I retool the system if I had the ability to do so? In a heartbeat.

It's flat-out dumb and irresponsible, imo, to not take advantage of the laws, tax advantages, etc in your country...I'd be far more worried about a businessperson who didn't utilize the laws to their advantage than someone who did.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brownie28 wrote:
wasusnowme wrote:
As a businessman, why would he eliminate a program that has allowed him to realize millions in revenues? If he truly believes it is the right thing to do for the country, why was he playing the loophole game in the first place? It is just another case of him having no discernible moral or ethical compass. I don't have a problem with him being a business man or playing the loophole game. I do have a problem with him taking a morally superior position when he has been guilty of the very behavior he is railing against now. Perhaps this is just another example of the born again syndrome.

Perfect example: I happen to think federal grants and loans for college are killing young people and severely handicapping them out of college, artificially inflating the cost of school and saddling them with tons of debt. When I was in school the issue wasn't nearly as bad but I wound up with about $20K in student loans, mostly federal. Did I play the game? Yes. Would I retool the system if I had the ability to do so? In a heartbeat.

It's flat-out dumb and irresponsible, imo, to not take advantage of the laws, tax advantages, etc in your country...I'd be far more worried about a businessperson who didn't utilize the laws to their advantage than someone who did.

Your example isn't even in the same ballpark. You gambled that the benefits of the education would outweigh the costs of the borrowed money.

Trump was happily gaming the system and now wants to make it illegal to do so. If he truly believes the visa program is detrimental to the US economy why would he partake in the loopholerie just to make money? Oh, wait a minute, I forgot, the pursuit of money is the only thing worth living for and anything done in that pursuit that is not specifically deemed illegal is all good. I guess the adage 'just because one can doesn't mean one should' no longer applies to living in our modern society.

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wasusnowme wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.

As a businessman, why would he eliminate a program that has allowed him to realize millions in revenues? If he truly believes it is the right thing to do for the country, why was he playing the loophole game in the first place? It is just another case of him having no discernible moral or ethical compass. I don't have a problem with him being a business man or playing the loophole game. I do have a problem with him taking a morally superior position when he has been guilty of the very behavior he is railing against now. Perhaps this is just another example of the born again syndrome.

Your tears are fucking delicious. He explained it to you but your hatred continues to flow. Yum


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment.
True, but his actions as POTUS come across as "Do as I say, not as I do."

Oh please elaborate.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.[/quote]

He's also supposedly a president. You see no conflict of interest at all? Seems that he has two sets of laws, one for him and one for everybody else. It still amazes me how many are still giving him a pass, albeit his support is dropping.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wasusnowme wrote:

Your example isn't even in the same ballpark. You gambled that the benefits of the education would outweigh the costs of the borrowed money.

Trump was happily gaming the system and now wants to make it illegal to do so. If he truly believes the visa program is detrimental to the US economy why would he partake in the loopholerie just to make money? Oh, wait a minute, I forgot, the pursuit of money is the only thing worth living for and anything done in that pursuit that is not specifically deemed illegal is all good. I guess the adage 'just because one can doesn't mean one should' no longer applies to living in our modern society.
You're fucking delusional. How was he 'gaming the system'??? The system was gamed for him! Yes, as a businessman his aim is to make money, and as a successful businessman he uses avenues afforded to him through tax policy, immigration policy. If loopholes are closed it would be illegal for him to do things that were previously legal. This really isn't rocket science.

Further, what sinister 'loopholerie' are you referring to? Is it the legal H1B visas given to the models he hired for his resorts, or the legal permits for low-skilled seasonal vineyard workers? Guess what, it's legal and normal course of business, not loopholes. Do you even know what his policy proposals are? Do you know anything about the H1B program and why people have been calling for it to be modified for years?

One last thing: Trump's campaign was highly successful in large part because he on a fwe things at every stop along the way: 1. I'm a successful businessman, employing thousands of people and making a ton of money. 2. I know US business and tax policy, being successful in my ventures I need to know how all this works; 3. It's a fucking mess, and is part of why American businesses are falling behind and/or looking overseas, why people are underemployed, why wages are stagnant. 4. I can fix it.

I don't believe #2 and #4 are true, which is part of why I didn't vote for him. #1 is mostly true. But #3 is where I'm totally with him, and I hope he's successful in retooling our tax code and immigration policy.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.


He's also supposedly a president. You see no conflict of interest at all? Seems that he has two sets of laws, one for him and one for everybody else. It still amazes me how many are still giving him a pass, albeit his support is dropping.
I do. That's a separate issue entirely though. I've been calling for tax reform for years and the H1B program needs an overhaul. I can both be critical of Trump for certain things--not releasing his taxes, not divesting himself of business interests while President, having his family too close to all of this while he runs the country--while also supporting some of his aims and goals as President.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What part of "Trump-branded real estate has raised at least $50 million in foreign investor money through a program that gives foreign investors access to green cards" did you not understand? Seems like loopholerie to me.

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have no problem with the fact that he played the game as its designed.

My issue comes, as your title states, with "will Trump's businesses be exempt". I have zero confidence that when the deals are struck, and the new way of doing business is codified, that his businesses or interests won't somehow have an exemption. He will have campaigned on saying this was all bad, even though he was doing it, and then he will eliminate it for some, but not himself. Thus a win-win for him. He fulfills a campaign promise, but still rakes in the money.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
It's flat-out dumb and irresponsible, imo, to not take advantage of the laws, tax advantages, etc in your country

And in the case of a publicly owned company it could get you sued, or worse.

It's only smellz.

- Rocco Siffredi
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [ubdawg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ubdawg wrote:
I have no problem with the fact that he played the game as its designed.

My issue comes, as your title states, with "will Trump's businesses be exempt". I have zero confidence that when the deals are struck, and the new way of doing business is codified, that his businesses or interests won't somehow have an exemption. He will have campaigned on saying this was all bad, even though he was doing it, and then he will eliminate it for some, but not himself. Thus a win-win for him. He fulfills a campaign promise, but still rakes in the money.
This should absolutely, unequivocally be universally panned if it happens and I'd hope there would be a fucking revolt if Trump did this. I would be right there marching in protest, I can guarantee you.

But it's total speculation, and the OP's article really had nothing to do with anything other than Trump's businesses doing exactly what other businesses are doing. It's baseless speculation and screams of blinded bias against the man, not the idea.

Further, I didn't hear many democrats critical of Congress for passing the ACA but exempting themselves and their staffs from the program. Fucking hypocrites, both the politicians and the liberals who saw not only how the ACA was passed but all the bullshit carve-outs and exemptions and not caring, now they're crying over speculation of what Trump might do? Give me a break.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wasusnowme wrote:
What part of "Trump-branded real estate has raised at least $50 million in foreign investor money through a program that gives foreign investors access to green cards" did you not understand? Seems like loopholerie to me.
I can almost guarantee that this has zero to do with Trump or his organizations pursuing this loophole, and everything to do with the loophole existing.
https://www.nytimes.com/...eal-estate.html?_r=0

$50MM at $500K a pop is a whopping 100 wealthy foreigners using this green card investment program. I can guarantee you most are Chinese nationals sending their kids to college, that's what we've seen here in Boston: scooping up real estate and investing in projects while giving their kids a place to stay and a green card.

I'm not sure what sinister loophole it is you think he's taking advantage of here, though.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
I've never understood this stance...Trump is a businessman doing what he can to protect his interests and make money in a competitive environment. Of course he's going to take advantage of the laws in place, like anyone else. That includes hiring immigrants as low-skilled vineyard workers, 'high skilled' models, etc. Maybe he personally believes an overhaul of our immigration is the right thing to do so he's doing it; maybe it polled well and became a talking point because people want it so he's following through on his promises. In either case he's doing what he promised he'd do on the campaign trail.

This is why I somewhat understand why he hasn't released his taxes. I disagree with it in practice, but the vultures would be out and every single tax loophole he took advantage of would be the biggest fuckign deal ever. He's a businessman, get over it.[/quote]

He's also supposedly a president. You see no conflict of interest at all? Seems that he has two sets of laws, one for him and one for everybody else. It still amazes me how many are still giving him a pass, albeit his support is dropping.

Are you saying Trump is a hypocrite because of this specific instance?

If so, could you explain why you think so?

************************

#WeAreTheForge

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's naturally assumed that Trump's businesses will abide by whatever is written in the executive order.

If you are you asking if Trump will go beyond the executive order in his personally owned businesses so as to root out foreign workers and investors, then my answer would be: no, we have no reason to suspect he will do that.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For those interested in what the order actually says.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/18/presidential-executive-order-buy-american-and-hire-american


Section 1. Definitions. As used in this order:

(a) "Buy American Laws" means all statutes, regulations, rules, and Executive Orders relating to Federal procurement or Federal grants including those that refer to "Buy America" or "Buy American" that require, or provide a preference for, the purchase or acquisition of goods, products, or materials produced in the United States, including iron, steel, and manufactured goods.

(b) "Produced in the United States" means, for iron and steel products, that all manufacturing processes, from the initial melting stage through the application of coatings, occurred in the United States.

(c) "Petition beneficiaries" means aliens petitioned for by employers to become nonimmigrant visa holders with temporary work authorization under the H-1B visa program.

(d) "Waivers" means exemptions from or waivers of Buy American Laws, or the procedures and conditions used by an executive department or agency (agency) in granting exemptions from or waivers of Buy American Laws.

(e) "Workers in the United States" and "United States workers" shall both be defined as provided at section 212(n)(4)(E) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(n)(4)(E)).

) Within 150 days of the date of this order, the heads of all agencies shall:
(i) assess the monitoring of, enforcement of, implementation of, and compliance with Buy American Laws within their agencies;

(ii) assess the use of waivers within their agencies by type and impact on domestic jobs and manufacturing; and

(iii) develop and propose policies for their agencies to ensure that, to the extent permitted by law, Federal financial assistance awards and Federal procurements maximize the use of materials produced in the United States, including manufactured products; components of manufactured products; and materials such as steel, iron, aluminum, and cement.

The executive order directs federal agencies to crack down on fraud and abuse in the H-1B visa program, which is heavily used by technology companies. And it directs the federal government to fully enforce federal guidelines prioritizing the use of American firms and goods in federal projects.


http://www.npr.org/2017/04/17/524422344/new-trump-order-extends-buy-american-and-hire-american-rules


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So basically tighten up enforcement and spend time looking at existing procedures around buying American/hiring American in federal agencies. i.e. zero whatsoever to do with private business.

I do think there's more to come, or at least I hope there is, around H1B visa restrictions, but this XO really just directs federal agencies to examine their own shops, nothing more than that.
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I assume you expect everyone who advocates for higher income taxes to be sending in the "extra" taxes already?
Quote Reply
Re: So, Will Trump's Businesses Be Exempt... [efernand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
efernand wrote:
I assume you expect everyone who advocates for higher income taxes to be sending in the "extra" taxes already?

And what about Leo DiCaprio flying around the world on private jets advocating cutting carbon emissions?

Or Hillary Clinton telling us that rape victims should always be believed??

It's only smellz.

- Rocco Siffredi
Quote Reply