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Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us?
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littlefoot
Jun 28, 12 14:17
Post #1 of 23
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Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us?
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Okay,
so it has passed...
1. won't insurance companies now jack up prices because everyone HAS to have insurance?
2. won't all the companies in the us that employ any workers just eliminate paying for insurance because prices will skyrocket?
3. companies will find it cheaper to pay the fine for each employee versus paying the actual costs.
So, we will pay more for insurance, since our companies will ditch paying for it, and our original amount of $ we earned will be drastically slashed because we will either pay for insurance out the wazoo, or pay a fine ourselves of $750 a month per individual.
Aren't we screwed? Tell me I am wrong, and tell me why.
beanmj
Jun 28, 12 14:20
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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As hard as it is to believe, there still is competition in the health insurance market. Your first "question" is stupid and the rest fall because of that.
littlefoot
Jun 28, 12 14:28
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [beanmj]
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Why is it stupid?
If you sold bikes, and everyone had to have a bike, wouldn't it be wise to get together with all the other bike sellers and agree on jacking up prices since EVERYONE HAS to have one?
stupid that!
styrrell
Jun 28, 12 14:30
Post #4 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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Wise in the sense of illegal?
Styrrell
littlefoot
Jun 28, 12 14:39
Post #5 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [styrrell]
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this meeting obviously happens quietly, like everything else
golum
Jun 28, 12 14:39
Post #6 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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The insurance regulations mandate that a certain amount of each premium dollar received by insurers must be spent on healthcare, or else they will have to give it back. Essentially, the amount they get to keep for expenses and profit is capped.
Quel
Jun 28, 12 14:42
Post #7 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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littlefoot wrote:
Why is it stupid?
If you sold bikes, and everyone had to have a bike, wouldn't it be wise to get together with all the other bike sellers and agree on jacking up prices since EVERYONE HAS to have one?
stupid that!
That's what they call illegal collusion.
Eppur si muove
Jun 28, 12 15:20
Post #8 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [golum]
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golum wrote:
The insurance regulations mandate that a certain amount of each premium dollar received by insurers must be spent on healthcare, or else they will have to give it back. Essentially, the amount they get to keep for expenses and profit is capped.
As a result of which we can expect the same thing that always happens when you impose a price ceiling below the market price for a good.
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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin
monty
Jun 28, 12 15:26
Post #9 of 23
(971 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [Eppur si muove]
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The insurance regulations mandate that a certain amount of each premium dollar received by insurers must be spent on healthcare, or else they will have to give it back. Essentially, the amount they get to keep for expenses and profit is capped.
As a result of which we can expect the same thing that always happens when you impose a price ceiling below the market price for a good.
Just recently i got a letter from my insurance company saying i was going to get 5 free months for some unknown reason. I tried to get to why this was happening, it was a lot of money to me ($10k). Never heard why, but now i think it was part of this new law perhaps. So as usually everyone speculates what the provisions will bring, i actually got quite a bit of relief in my health care bill. And it looks like maybe there will be another one coming. Sure beats the last 12 years of it going up every single year, year after year. So apparently something positive has changed in the near term for some of us who already had cadalliac insurance..
trail
Jun 28, 12 15:38
Post #10 of 23
(967 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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>1. won't insurance companies now jack up prices because everyone HAS to have insurance?
Not in theory- because insurance companies still compete with each other. Everyone (for the most part) has to have toilet paper, but the toilet paper market is very competitive.
Edit: prices might go up, but not for this reason alone. I'd suggest the anti-trust exemption as fodder if you're worried about monopolistic behavior.
>3. companies will find it cheaper to pay the fine for each employee versus paying the actual costs.
Companies already (generally) don't pay the entire cost. But you might be right - it's possible everyone could be dumped onto the subsidized exchanges. But this isn't necessarily bad for just this reason alone. I've always thought it absurd to have health insurance tied to your employer.
>Aren't we screwed? Tell me I am wrong, and tell me why.
I don't know. Might be. Or maybe we'll just be screwed in different ways than we already are.
beanmj
Jun 28, 12 15:49
Post #11 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [Eppur si muove]
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Eppur si muove wrote:
As a result of which we can expect the same thing that always happens when you impose a price ceiling below the market price for a good.
It's not a price ceiling, it's a defined profit percentage. Not entirely "american" but since the insurance companies basically wrote the law, I'm sure the percentage is more than acceptable to the insurers.
fembeast
Jun 28, 12 15:50
Post #12 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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All I know is that the insurance industry hasn't decreased the premiums for my corporation. Yes hard to believe this small business owner still pays for its employees to have medical insurance. In point of fact ever since the law past we have paid higher premiums each year. I think ultimately the prices will continue to rise and/or benefits will decrease with increased out of pocket expense to the insured but this is only my opinion.
SpicedRum
Jun 28, 12 15:55
Post #13 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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yes, health insurance prices will rise, but not because of the reason you stated. That might actually have decreased the cost to an individual.
beanmj
Jun 28, 12 16:08
Post #14 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [fembeast]
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fembeast wrote:
All I know is that the insurance industry hasn't decreased the premiums for my corporation. Yes hard to believe this small business owner still pays for its employees to have medical insurance. In point of fact ever since the law past we have paid higher premiums each year. I think ultimately the prices will continue to rise and/or benefits will decrease with increased out of pocket expense to the insured but this is only my opinion.
And before the ACA was passed, the premiums were nice and stable?
Paddywhack
Jun 28, 12 16:17
Post #15 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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it will make us all friends again; or not.
fembeast
Jun 28, 12 16:25
Post #16 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [beanmj]
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Not stable but saw huge percentage increase after the laws passage. I still have my doubts about the law driving health insurance premiums down.
Rodred
Jun 28, 12 16:29
Post #17 of 23
(907 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [fembeast]
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It will FORCE premiums down by design and then guess where people turn, by design.
Its tough to compete with the person who makes the rules. Left unchecked Obama and his pals will get exactly what they wanted all along and it will be a devastating power grab of epic proportions.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
justgeorge
Jun 28, 12 19:10
Post #18 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [Rodred]
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It will FORCE premiums down by design and then guess where people turn, by design.
Premiums aren't going down, they're going up. You can't eliminate annual caps, lifetime caps, and pre-existing condition exclusions and expect rates to go down.
But you're right, the end goal will be to force insurance companies to shut down and then everyone turns to the govt, by design.
SpicedRum
Jun 28, 12 21:01
Post #19 of 23
(834 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [justgeorge]
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for some premiums will go down, for most they will go up. Insurance companies cannot charge a fat out of shape 45 year old man with diabetes more than they can charge a fit with absolutely no health problems 45 year old man, therefore, the fit man's premiums will go up so that they don't lose money on the fat man, and the fat man's premiums might go down some.
It's hard to say what forcing everyone to get insurance will do, a lot of those w/o insurance were perfectly healthy and just took the gamble (or couldn't afford it.. i.e., 22-26 year old) and then there are some that are sick and couldn't afford it, but that's most likely going to be a wash. And since those who were sick and couldn't afford it didn't have it before but went to the hospital, and the hospitals had to recoup costs somehow, which they did by increasing costs to others, which meant increased in insurance premiums after it was all said and done, I don't think the 'mandate' will do much to change the costs of insurance. It's the other things that will.
Allie
Jun 29, 12 5:52
Post #20 of 23
(771 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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I am looking at this from the provider end. This time next year, my livelihood will come from patient care and insurance companies.
I would not be surprised if the non-private insurance companies that have now been forced to cover pre-existing conditions (I don't disagree with this) will start to limit services.
With new guidelines coming out on mammograms, pap smears, PSA levels, DEXA scans and other screening tests. I forsee those decreasing quite a bit, example: You have a woman that is 40 with no history of breast cancer in the family, I would not be surprised if they don't push back the initial mammogram until 50. Same thing with other preventative screenings.
They are already trying to push DEXA scans to age 67 instead of 60. It is a very pervasive way of practicing patient care if you ask me. Not all patients should get all tests immediately when they turn 40, but there are some that are certainly warranted and as a healthcare provider I have to weigh the costs to the patient versus what is going to find potentially deadly disease processes. It has been trending this way for a long time, I just think it may get a bit accelerated with some of the newer changes.
Medicare/Medicaid has also hinted that they will decrease their payout to providers, which means more providers will not go to the trouble of taking Medicare/Medicaid for payment. We see it happening here in TN already with their state insurance and a lack of pediatricians that will see those patients.
atgnat
Jun 29, 12 7:16
Post #21 of 23
(732 views)
Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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I spoke to 22 public company "c" levels yesterday after the ruling. 21 of them are eliminating the coverage. 1 self insures.
I spoke to 2 doctors yesterday. they are both GP's. They are both going to a cash business, meaning, you pay and then submit to your insurance provider. They both believe most good GP's will refuse insurance going forward.
Your free cash flow is getting dinged. Your coverage will be more expensive. Period. If you didn't have it you will be paying for at least a portion of it. If you don't want it, you will be paying the tax penalty. High income people are getting hit with a +3.5% increase on passive income and a +1% increase in medicare taxes.
The law does nothing to fix the underlying issue of cost. It just throws money at it. Stupidly.
This is what happens when ill-informed people make decisions.
markthemoper.wordpress.com/
YaHey
Jun 29, 12 7:24
Post #22 of 23
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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Now you're asking the questions of what it will do to us? You've had 27 months to figure this out.
oldandslow
Jun 29, 12 7:42
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Re: Questions about the Health Ins. Passing-what will it do to us? [littlefoot]
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Nothing much will happen, a whole bunch of folks will make silly apocalyptic predictions that don't come true. Many of them will grow up to become bitter old folks, who spend all of their time reminiscing about "the good old days" that really weren't that good. Life will go on.
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