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Obama lectures Supreme Court

 

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Brick

Apr 3, 12 8:43

Post #51 of 150 (802 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [MJuric] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm not familiar with the legal system to know for sure, but it was my understanding that "Judicial review", meaning looking at law, legal actions from ANY source is EXACTLY what the supreme court is in place, in fact exists, to do.

Actually, that function is not spelled out in the Constitution. See my comments with Rob regarding Marbury v. Madison. The SCOTUS has specific constitutional jurisdiction over disputes between states and I seem to recall a few other areas. Ruling on the constitutionality of legislation is a power/function that the SCOTUS decided that it had for itself.

Why someone would say "This is completely unprecedented" is absolutely beyond me, well other than to try to paint a negative decision, one that does not agree with his position as "Activist" and to turn the populous that supports him against the supreme court because they don't know any better.

The following people would say something like that:

1. People who are ignorant with respect to the Consitution
2. Partisan political hacks who think their audience is ignorant with respect to the Constitution and do not expect to be held accountable for the comment or don't care



Brick

Apr 3, 12 8:51

Post #52 of 150 (799 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [MJuric] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here is the full text of Article III dealing with the Judicial Branch:

Section 1.
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2.
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States;--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Section 3.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.


(This post was edited by Brick on Apr 3, 12 8:53)


MJuric

Apr 3, 12 8:54

Post #53 of 150 (795 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The SCOTUS has specific constitutional jurisdiction over disputes between states

Would the current health care issue fall under that jurisdiction? It's more of a dispute between the states and the federal government is it not?

~Matt




MJuric

Apr 3, 12 8:57

Post #54 of 150 (791 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;

That seems to answer my prior question.

IOW yes, the US is in a controversy with the states so the SCOTUS has jurisdiction.


~Matt



Brick

Apr 3, 12 9:00

Post #55 of 150 (787 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [MJuric] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The federal judiciary has jurisdiction because it is a federal question, i.e., it is federal legislation.

The issue that Obama raised is not whether the court has jursidiction but whether the court has the power to declare the legislation constitutional or not. And, while that question is an excellent one, it was decided in 1803. Thus, his suggestion that a ruling on the constitutionality of Obamacare by the SCOTUS would be unprededented and extraordinary is absurd.


Rodred

Apr 3, 12 9:03

Post #56 of 150 (784 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Brick wrote:
Eppur si muove wrote:
As I indicated above, I agree with you that it's disappointing to hear Obama say that. I would add that it's disingenuous of him.

Personally, btw, I'm quite happy with Marbury v. Madison and am quite happy to have a judicial check on headstrong legislatures.


I am still torn on this one. The idealist in me thinks that the voters should be forced to correct what the legislators they elect do. But, I fear that we are far too gone for that. So, we leave it to the whims of nine men and women who we hope will be able to decide issues fairly despite their all too political appointments.

Amen.

~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.


TheForge

Apr 3, 12 9:07

Post #57 of 150 (780 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Which only suggests he is intentionally misrepresenting the facts in order to demonize the court. That doesn't make him any better, it makes him a deceiver.


MOP_Mike

Apr 3, 12 9:08

Post #58 of 150 (779 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Rodred] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rodred wrote:
"I'm confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress," Obama said.

What "strong majority"? Pelosi had to pass it by resorting to the budget reconciliation gimmick...


"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.


last tri in 83

Apr 3, 12 9:12

Post #59 of 150 (772 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Makes him a community organizer.

_____________________________________________
To err is human, to forgive, canine


chainpin

Apr 3, 12 9:13

Post #60 of 150 (772 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [MOP_Mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

MOP_Mike wrote:
Rodred wrote:
"I'm confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress," Obama said.


What "strong majority"? Pelosi had to pass it by resorting to the budget reconciliation gimmick...

No, she had to pass it so we could find out what's in it.

I guess Obama's going to find out what's in it and what is going to be struck down as null and void.

I am going to have a full on grand celebration when this turd is finally flushed down the crapper.

And I'm never going to let the AINO's live it down--ever.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



TheForge

Apr 3, 12 9:23

Post #61 of 150 (763 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Brick] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Brick wrote:
I'm not familiar with the legal system to know for sure, but it was my understanding that "Judicial review", meaning looking at law, legal actions from ANY source is EXACTLY what the supreme court is in place, in fact exists, to do.

Actually, that function is not spelled out in the Constitution. See my comments with Rob regarding Marbury v. Madison. The SCOTUS has specific constitutional jurisdiction over disputes between states and I seem to recall a few other areas. Ruling on the constitutionality of legislation is a power/function that the SCOTUS decided that it had for itself.

Why someone would say "This is completely unprecedented" is absolutely beyond me, well other than to try to paint a negative decision, one that does not agree with his position as "Activist" and to turn the populous that supports him against the supreme court because they don't know any better.

The following people would say something like that:

1. People who are ignorant with respect to the Consitution
2. Partisan political hacks who think their audience is ignorant with respect to the Constitution and do not expect to be held accountable for the comment or don't care

I'm going with door number two on this one. He knows what he is doing. There are theories he has been told what decision took place in the meeting, but regardless the signs point to an overturning of the law or key points. He is teeing up for the election. He can't run on any accomplishments, so frankly he is going to demonize the court so that he can pull a, two of them are likely to retire. Do you want a republican who will appoint more of the same, or do you want me who will appoint judges that will "do the right thing". I don't recall a single candidate going personally going in that directions, though their handlers always push that talking point. For a candidate to specifically call the SCOTUS a political/partisan organization is very unusual and potentially very dangerous. He has already shown little restraing in poisoning the relationship with them. And has been called out for it politely by members of the Supreme Court including Roberts. This is a dangerous time.


sphere

Apr 3, 12 9:28

Post #62 of 150 (758 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [vitus979] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

vitus979 wrote:
I thought the same thing. I don't know how he said it with a straight face.

Practice.



"Reason obeys itself; ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it." - T. Paine


chainpin

Apr 3, 12 9:36

Post #63 of 150 (752 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It is quite despicable, this tact he taking with the court.

To me it just shows that the AINO's in crafting this law, were so focused on simply passing this bill as a goal unto itself, that they never entertained the thought that it would be struck down, yet, now reality is setting in and as Obama's singular accomplishment goes down the shit drain, he's left simply with the skid marks on the side of the toilet and an empty roll of TP for his trouble.

A fitting end to a shit talking community organizing ideological imposter, that will forever be a stain on our political landscape.

The term lame duck President isn't even fitting, as it implies that he actually had done something of positive note prior to the recognition that he will never win a second term.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



Old Hickory

Apr 3, 12 9:48

Post #64 of 150 (743 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

YaHey wrote:
I am thinking that Obama knows a bit more about constitutional law than all of the yahoos in the LR combined.

This was written last week and my apologies to the author: Intelligence - judgment = intellect

So yes, I agree he knows more on the subject but without wisdom he fails horribly.


chainpin

Apr 3, 12 9:53

Post #65 of 150 (738 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [Old Hickory] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

He understands our system and the foundation upon which the SCOUTS derives its powers, he just doesn't believe in it.

And I want to see a AINO moonbat argue to the contrary if any of you have the guts or balls to try it.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



nhunter344

Apr 3, 12 10:03

Post #66 of 150 (722 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

chainpin wrote:
The term lame duck President isn't even fitting, as it implies that he actually had done something of positive note prior to the recognition that he will never win a second term.

Have you been watching the same Republican primaries as I have?


TheForge

Apr 3, 12 10:19

Post #67 of 150 (714 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [nhunter344] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Were you watching the same Democratic primaries that we were during the 2008 election. Both candidates were so bloodied all the pundits were worried it would carry over to the General Election. Mixed polling supported that same idea. The democratic party was so fractured the only common bond was a hatred of Bushed that carried onto the Republican Party as a whole. Even then you had record turnout on both sides. Obama being getting the most votes in history but only narrowling defeating McCain's 3rd most votes in history run in the general population.In otherwords, it is the same game. We have no idea until the conventions. And Obama seems to be doing a good job at alienating moderates which he will need to win since it is unlikely he will get the same enthusiasm from college students and people who have never voted before. Hope and change won't work this time. Also, the general numbers don't and never do matter. The state by state numbers do and as we have already discussed, Obama is in real trouble when you look at state to state numbers.


Eppur si muove

Apr 3, 12 10:28

Post #68 of 150 (709 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I am thinking that Obama knows a bit more about constitutional law than all of the yahoos in the LR combined.

That would put him solidly in Brick's category 2 (see post #51).


xtremrun

Apr 3, 12 10:34

Post #69 of 150 (700 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

theforge wrote:
Were you watching the same Democratic primaries that we were during the 2008 election. Both candidates were so bloodied all the pundits were worried it would carry over to the General Election. Mixed polling supported that same idea. The democratic party was so fractured the only common bond was a hatred of Bushed that carried onto the Republican Party as a whole. Even then you had record turnout on both sides. Obama being getting the most votes in history but only narrowling defeating McCain's 3rd most votes in history run in the general population.In otherwords, it is the same game. We have no idea until the conventions. And Obama seems to be doing a good job at alienating moderates which he will need to win since it is unlikely he will get the same enthusiasm from college students and people who have never voted before. Hope and change won't work this time. Also, the general numbers don't and never do matter. The state by state numbers do and as we have already discussed, Obama is in real trouble when you look at state to state numbers.


I don't know
http://en.wikipedia.org/...ntial_election,_2012

And if the women come out to vote the republican doesn't have a chance.


TheForge

Apr 3, 12 10:53

Post #70 of 150 (691 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [xtremrun] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Interesting, but I made my decision based on Gallups comprehensive state to state poll which is one agency, a good one at that, taking a lot more time to compile a more thorough analysis. But this just shows that it could go anyway and we don't even have a match up yet.


xtremrun

Apr 3, 12 10:59

Post #71 of 150 (689 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I agree. I think it is going to be closers than both sides think. Shades of 2000 maybe. Just think of the uproar if it goes to SCOTUS again.


nhunter344

Apr 3, 12 11:04

Post #72 of 150 (687 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I just dont see it. In 2008, you had the press ready to jump on-board whoever won the DNC nomination. Even more so when the general consensus in the U.S. at that time was anybody but Bush (and by extension the GOP). Could it be the First Woman President or could it be the First Black President? I just dont see the news outlets ready to back whoever the GOP puts forward as a candidate.

I think it will be a helluva lot closer in 2012, but to this point Im not seeing it. The Pubs arent doing themselves any favor with the recent media coverage of abortion rights and the whole 'life at conception' point Pubs in several states have attempted. Might just get the female voters out in large numbers.


rick_pcfl

Apr 3, 12 11:14

Post #73 of 150 (680 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [xtremrun] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

xtremrun wrote:
I agree. I think it is going to be closers than both sides think. Shades of 2000 maybe. Just think of the uproar if it goes to SCOTUS again.

Oh, that would be so rich after what he's said about SCOTUS.
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YaHey

Apr 3, 12 11:20

Post #74 of 150 (677 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [theforge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

theforge wrote:
Which only suggests he is intentionally misrepresenting the facts in order to demonize the court. That doesn't make him any better, it makes him a deceiver.

Intentionally misrepresenting facts? How about giving a qualified legal opinion?


xtremrun

Apr 3, 12 11:23

Post #75 of 150 (673 views)
Re: Obama lectures Supreme Court [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

YaHey wrote:
theforge wrote:
Which only suggests he is intentionally misrepresenting the facts in order to demonize the court. That doesn't make him any better, it makes him a deceiver.


Intentionally misrepresenting facts? How about giving a qualified legal opinion?

Yahey this is the Lavender Room there are no "Qualified" opinions allowed in here! Geeez.

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