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Obama, spending like a drunken sailor...

 

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triblaq

Jul 11, 12 13:49

Post #1 of 35 (1273 views)
Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... Quote | Reply

Maybe this has been previously posted and discussed. If so, forgive me.

LR minions, why is this article all lies by the Liberal media. Please inform me.

http://www.forbes.com/...ve-its-barack-obama/

The comments are exquisite!


MJuric

Jul 11, 12 14:06

Post #2 of 35 (1258 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wouldn't say "Lies", but it's a bit misleading. Yes this was posted a while back and the numbers are based on the idea that the start level budget was the 2008 budget that included the 785B dollar stimulus spending.

So in essence he has increased only 1.4% over the 785B dollar inflated budget of Bush's last year. Yes technically the stimulus belongs on the Bush Administration, but also technically it was not part of the budget it was an "Emergency Stimulus". Remove the one time stimulus shot from the picture and we have a rather radical increase in spending.

~Matt


ScottyBoy

Jul 11, 12 14:06

Post #3 of 35 (1258 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply



morey000

Jul 11, 12 14:16

Post #4 of 35 (1244 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yeah, this one has been through the wringer. There was a Fox critique of this that was posted, where all the numbers were challenged and took a more 'anti-obama' look at it and concluded that instead of a 1.8% increase it was really a 3.something percent increase.

so- all the right wingers here were happy that the article was totally debunked...


and they never got the fact that even in the end, the Obama spending increases were still far far less than any GOP president.

the reality is, in every other recession, we increased Government spending far more than Obama has. What HAS gone up is the spend to GDP ratio, but that's because our economy collapsed in 2008... which of course, was entirely Obama's fault.


the other real problem we're having is the total contraction of state spending and state and local government employees. Much of the unemployment in this country is due to a falloff in public employees, and the growth has been in the private sector. Now this should make the conservatives happy... except given the election coming up- it's not something they'd want to credit Obama for.

Where is that jobs bill again from Boehner? or- never mind. Instead they passed a bill to repeal obamacare for the 31st time... and they passed another bill to repeal the cuts in Medicare that they originally all supported. At least they didn't pass any more anti-abortion legislation this week (did they?).


MJuric

Jul 11, 12 14:25

Post #5 of 35 (1234 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

HERE's the discussion and below is a graph showing actual spending adjusted for inflation. Based on the same article. Remove 785B stimulus from the picture and you get very different results. The jump from the 2008 budget to 2010 budget is about 14%. The numbers shown are inflation adjusted in 1982 dollars.




YaHey

Jul 11, 12 15:36

Post #6 of 35 (1207 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

  
Does the article point out that it was Bush, a republican, that actually signed the stimulus program? Or did somehow this tiny minor point get omitted?


blueraider_mike

Jul 11, 12 15:47

Post #7 of 35 (1204 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

YaHey wrote:

Does the article point out that it was Bush, a republican, that actually signed the stimulus program? Or did somehow this tiny minor point get omitted?


No, Bush agreed to a bailout of 700B, of which only 350B of it was spend in 2008. Do we really need to have another discussion. In 2009, Obama signed an earmark filled omnibus because the Democrat Senate would not pass a 2009 budget ( and still hasn't to this day) before Bush left. Then Obama doubled down with his stimulus and tripled down with more bailout money - all of this was in the 2009 budget - which for some reason is being credited to Bush. If in fact, this was on Bush watch then ANY credit to the crappy recovery would have to be given to Bush, since technically, the recession ended in June 2009.


What Obama then did (along with the Democrat house and Senate) is BAKE this MASSIVE increase in spending for the next 3 years and beyond - baseline budgeting; the method that allows Obama to claim only 1.4% increases and allowed the Democrats to demonize the Rep back in the 1990s by saying increases in spending were in fact cuts.


Garry

Jul 11, 12 16:17

Post #8 of 35 (1192 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In respect to most drunken sailors I"ve know,, they at least stopped drinking when they ran out of money.


triblaq

Jul 11, 12 16:19

Post #9 of 35 (1191 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [blueraider_mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

 

The article says that the 2009 Budget was passed under Bush's watch, before Obama took office. So it makes sense to me that it's not credited against Obama. The question I have is can the president spend money that is not in the budget? Apparently he can, since Bush funded 2 wars off the books. Deficit spending. What allows this? Does the president basically have a blank check to buy anything he wants?

How is Obama signing earmarked filled omnibus legislation before he's even taken office?


big kahuna

Jul 11, 12 18:47

Post #10 of 35 (1143 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

triblaq wrote:
Maybe this has been previously posted and discussed. If so, forgive me.

LR minions, why is this article all lies by the Liberal media. Please inform me.

http://www.forbes.com/...ve-its-barack-obama/

The comments are exquisite!

Hey...don't insult drunken Sailors (which I used to be ;-) by equating them to Barack Obama, the most prodigious spender in the history of U.S. presidents. Of course, he's actually trying to get that spending thing under control. By forcing military personnel to pay more for their healthcare and by trying to decrease their retirement benefits and such but hey...those expensive guv'mint lawyers/civil servants and that legion of GS10s out there gotta be protected, right?


slowguy

Jul 11, 12 19:25

Post #11 of 35 (1139 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [big kahuna] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Hey...don't insult drunken Sailors (which I used to be ;-) by equating them to Barack Obama, the most prodigious spender in the history of U.S. presidents."

You're just a comical yet sad shadow of your former self. It's really funny that your opening line is almost word for word the GOP talking point that the article in the OP is meant to debunk.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)


JSA

Jul 11, 12 19:28

Post #12 of 35 (1135 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [slowguy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"No, I love you Navy boys. Whenever we go off to fight, you always give us a ride."


_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


YaHey

Jul 11, 12 19:32

Post #13 of 35 (1134 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [blueraider_mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.


JSA

Jul 11, 12 19:34

Post #14 of 35 (1133 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

YaHey wrote:
You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.

Bwaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaa! Seriously???? Dude, you kill me, you really do! I hope you never leave ST b/c since losing MattinSF, we haven't had such good comic relief!
_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


big kahuna

Jul 12, 12 1:11

Post #15 of 35 (1086 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [JSA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

JSA wrote:
YaHey wrote:
You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.


Bwaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaa! Seriously???? Dude, you kill me, you really do! I hope you never leave ST b/c since losing MattinSF, we haven't had such good comic relief!

That's the gag among Dems and the far left (but I repeat myself) these days: They try to completely erase 2009's spending by Obama on the basis that it was Boooooosh. They grabbed onto Rex Nutting's stupid article over at MarketWatch in doing this, mainly because they don't have an original idea of their own, for one, on how to immunize Obama from the consequences of his spending. In reality, Dubya Bushitler and Obama share responsibility for 2009 for that transition year, just as Obama and Romney will share responsibility for the 2013 transition year once Romney takes office next January. For Bushitler and Obama, each influenced -- and Obama had an outsized influence on spending because of his failed stimulus package, for one -- spending in 2009. Nutting and the Dems/far Left trying to explain away Obama's failures out of the gate by moving Obama's responsibility for 2009 out to October of that year, which is the start of FY 2010.

That's foolish and intellectually dishonest, for the most part. It's a cherry picked date that glosses over a year in which spending on one-time items was extraordinarily high (bailout costs to the banks, some of which Obama owns; Fannie & Freddie, some of which Obama owns; auto manufacturers, most of which Obama owns, and the stimulus -- all of which Obama owns). Because of that little piece of fiscal legerdemain (shifting the Chosen One's responsibility for a chunk of spending that rightfully belongs to him), Obama and his supporters can duck more than $3.52 trillion in government spending in FY 2009 that rightfully belongs in his ledger, not Bush's. Bush did plenty enough damage on his own, but try convincing the Dems or the Left (I repeat myself) that Obama should have to answer for his monetary profligacy, right?

Obama has to also share partial responsibility for 2013, along with Romney -- whom I'm sure will take some sort of hacksaw to much of what Obama's proposed, but still... -- because of spending that will be 'baked into the cake,' so to speak. The true figure for 2013, as proposed by The One, is $3.72 trillion dollars. If you do what's supposed to be done, and which has been done for all other presidents EXCEPT Barack Obama, and measure average annual growth rates of federal spending from mid-year of the fiscal year in which the presidential election is held (in this case, fiscal year 2008) through to Congressional Budget Office (CBO) scoring of the Obama's budget proposal for fiscal year 2013, you see that the annual growth rate of federal spending under Obama has been at a nominal 4.5%. Because growth rates are incomplete measures, I'm willing to be charitable and cut this figure to somewhere in the 2s, though. Mainly because I'm a good guy, and always fair when it comes to Barack Obama. ;-)

Now, here are some facts when it comes to Obama and spending. These aren't just mine, but facts that have been made by many others, though the Dems and Barack Obama and much of the Left try their hardest to ignore:

-- Historically, the average of federal spending has been 20% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) +/- 0.2%, depending on the starting point or measuring window.

-- The average of federal spending for Bush, before the fiscal crisis year of 2009, was 19.6% of GDP. If you include 2009 (fiscal year, of course), and even add in Obama's stimulus and appropriations laws that Obama signed, Bush's average goes up to 20.1%.

-- The highest post-WWII average of federal spending, pre-financial crisis, was 23.5% of GDP in 1983.

-- In FY2009, the financial crisis year that includes both the Bush AND the Obama presidencies, federal spending was 25.2% of GDP.

-- If Obama's budget for FY 2013 is enacted as he proposed it (hahahahahahahaha!), then during the first (and only) term of the Obama presidency federal spending will average 24.1% of GDP. Even if you exclude FY 2009 -- as the Dems and all the Obama ballwashing sycophants try to do -- you still end up with an average of 23.8% of GDP over the course of the single term of the Obama presidency.

To be fair, a lot of the federal spending in Obama's first year in office was way, way high and much of it was indeed out of his control, but he still shares credit (or blame) for several significant portions of it. And because Obama's policies have maintained an extraordinarily high level of such spending he has been that much worse, and that much out of the historical average. Plus, Obama promises to keep spending like that in his second term, if by some miracle he ends up reelected.

For decades, federal spending averaged 20% of GDP, but Barack Obama has deliberately chosen to rule over a much bigger federal government that spends at a rate of about 24% of GDP. The average of spending over the length of his tenure, under either a single-term or a two-term assessment, would be either 20% larger than the historic average under a one-term Obama presidency, or 17% higher larger if two terms somehow occur. That's a huge increase, and one that Barack Obama completely owns.


big kahuna

Jul 12, 12 1:15

Post #16 of 35 (1083 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [slowguy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

slowguy wrote:
"Hey...don't insult drunken Sailors (which I used to be ;-) by equating them to Barack Obama, the most prodigious spender in the history of U.S. presidents."

You're just a comical yet sad shadow of your former self. It's really funny that your opening line is almost word for word the GOP talking point that the article in the OP is meant to debunk.


At ease, skipper. Refer to my later post for more education (which you sorely need, apparently. What; didn't Newport and Monterrey do you any good at all? ;-) on the subject. Besides, is it my fault if the Obama-loving types throw out such easy to eat red meat? And Obama IS the most profligate spender among presidents in history, lad. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

(This post was edited by big kahuna on Jul 12, 12 7:05)


dave_w

Jul 12, 12 5:22

Post #17 of 35 (1045 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

      Bush was very deferential to Obama, getting TARP (NOT the "stimulus" that was another 780 billion, wholly Obama's) passed, and leaving half the funds for Obama to direct. The author is giving a left-wing spin on spending; here's what actually happened, if you are truly interested:

"The analysis by Internet commentator Rex Nutting on which Obama based his claim begins by telling us “What people forget (or never knew) is that the first year of every presidential term starts with a budget approved by the previous administration and Congress.” Not exactly.
The previous administration, or President, proposes a budget. The previous Congress approves a budget. And what Congress approves can be radically different from what the President proposes.
As Art Laffer and Steve Moore showed in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, President Bush began a spending spree in his term that erased most of the gains in reduced government spending as a percent of GDP achieved by the Republican Congress in the 1990s led by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, in conjunction with President Clinton. But for fiscal year 2009, President Bush in February, 2008 proposed a budget with just a 3% spending increase over the prior year. Fiscal year 2009 ran from October 1, 2008 until September 30, 2009. President Obama’s term began on January 20, 2009.
Recall, however, that in 2008 Congress was controlled by Democrat majorities, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and the restless Senator Obama already running for President, just four years removed from his glorious career as a state Senator in the Illinois legislature. As Hans Bader reported on May 26 for the Washington Examiner, the budget approved and implemented by Pelosi, Obama and the rest of the Congressional Democrat majorities provided for a 17.9 percent increase in spending for fiscal 2009!
Actually, President Obama and the Democrats were even more deeply involved in the fiscal 2009 spending explosion than that. As Bader also reports, “The Democrat Congress [in 2008], confident Obama was going to win in 2008, passed only three of fiscal 2009’s 12 appropriations bills (Defense, Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security). The Democrat Congress passed the rest of them [in 2009], and [President] Obama signed them.” So Obama played a very direct role in the runaway fiscal 2009 spending explosion."

http://www.forbes.com/...er-in-world-history/


Eppur si muove

Jul 12, 12 5:27

Post #18 of 35 (1043 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anyone who manages to spend more than GWB did IS spending like a drunken sailor. That would be the case even if the percentage of increase worked out to be only, say 0.0000001 %. It amazes me that people have the audacity to claim that this president is frugal while openly admitting that he's spending more than any of his predecessors (regardless of whether or not one adjusts for GDP).


big kahuna

Jul 12, 12 6:42

Post #19 of 35 (1013 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [dave_w] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

dave_w wrote:
Bush was very deferential to Obama, getting TARP (NOT the "stimulus" that was another 780 billion, wholly Obama's) passed, and leaving half the funds for Obama to direct. The author is giving a left-wing spin on spending; here's what actually happened, if you are truly interested:

"The analysis by Internet commentator Rex Nutting on which Obama based his claim begins by telling us “What people forget (or never knew) is that the first year of every presidential term starts with a budget approved by the previous administration and Congress.” Not exactly.
The previous administration, or President, proposes a budget. The previous Congress approves a budget. And what Congress approves can be radically different from what the President proposes.
As Art Laffer and Steve Moore showed in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, President Bush began a spending spree in his term that erased most of the gains in reduced government spending as a percent of GDP achieved by the Republican Congress in the 1990s led by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, in conjunction with President Clinton. But for fiscal year 2009, President Bush in February, 2008 proposed a budget with just a 3% spending increase over the prior year. Fiscal year 2009 ran from October 1, 2008 until September 30, 2009. President Obama’s term began on January 20, 2009.
Recall, however, that in 2008 Congress was controlled by Democrat majorities, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and the restless Senator Obama already running for President, just four years removed from his glorious career as a state Senator in the Illinois legislature. As Hans Bader reported on May 26 for the Washington Examiner, the budget approved and implemented by Pelosi, Obama and the rest of the Congressional Democrat majorities provided for a 17.9 percent increase in spending for fiscal 2009!
Actually, President Obama and the Democrats were even more deeply involved in the fiscal 2009 spending explosion than that. As Bader also reports, “The Democrat Congress [in 2008], confident Obama was going to win in 2008, passed only three of fiscal 2009’s 12 appropriations bills (Defense, Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security). The Democrat Congress passed the rest of them [in 2009], and [President] Obama signed them.” So Obama played a very direct role in the runaway fiscal 2009 spending explosion."

http://www.forbes.com/...er-in-world-history/

Yeah, I hit the Obamanauts on that Nutting article (upon which the entire meme of "Obama's not responsible for 2009" is based, never mind that that article was almost immediately debunked) angle, too. Truth is, they got no defense against the wastrel Obama and his drunken sailor (I use the small 's' rather than the capital 'S' that would denote a US Navy Sailor ;-) like penchant for spending money we don't have nor are likely to have in the future, all his fevered Keynesian dreams (nightmares, is more like it) to the contrary.


Old Hickory

Jul 12, 12 6:49

Post #20 of 35 (1005 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [YaHey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

YaHey wrote:
You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.


Ha, ha, ha

And I laughed when you posted this the first, too! You are quite the funny guy, YaHey.


(This post was edited by Old Hickory on Jul 12, 12 6:50)


blueraider_mike

Jul 12, 12 7:12

Post #21 of 35 (994 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [Old Hickory] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Old Hickory wrote:
YaHey wrote:
You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.


Ha, ha, ha

And I laughed when you posted this the first, too! You are quite the funny guy, YaHey.

Isn't it amazing when we share facts, we are called uniformed...This quote takes what I was saying in two sentences. To the left, the ends justify the means, so whatever lying they need to do is what they need to do.

Actually, President Obama and the Democrats were even more deeply involved in the fiscal 2009 spending explosion than that. As Bader also reports, “The Democrat Congress [in 2008], confident Obama was going to win in 2008, passed only three of fiscal 2009’s 12 appropriations bills (Defense, Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security). The Democrat Congress passed the rest of them [in 2009], and [President] Obama signed them.” So Obama played a very direct role in the runaway fiscal 2009 spending explosion."


big kahuna

Jul 12, 12 7:21

Post #22 of 35 (989 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [blueraider_mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

blueraider_mike wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
YaHey wrote:
You're uninformed and misguided, again. You need to go back and figure out how much Bush's stimulus plan and 2009 budget was, because all this Obama spending is actually money that Bush on his way out screwed us with.


Ha, ha, ha

And I laughed when you posted this the first, too! You are quite the funny guy, YaHey.


Isn't it amazing when we share facts, we are called uniformed...This quote takes what I was saying in two sentences. To the left, the ends justify the means, so whatever lying they need to do is what they need to do.

Actually, President Obama and the Democrats were even more deeply involved in the fiscal 2009 spending explosion than that. As Bader also reports, “The Democrat Congress [in 2008], confident Obama was going to win in 2008, passed only three of fiscal 2009’s 12 appropriations bills (Defense, Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security). The Democrat Congress passed the rest of them [in 2009], and [President] Obama signed them.” So Obama played a very direct role in the runaway fiscal 2009 spending explosion."

That's why I brought up the appropriations bills Obama signed. The Left just assumes everybody's part of the "sheeple" crowd, like much its base, and will willingly swallow whole the thin gruel they ladle out. Plus, they think folks are stupid and can't even do the basic research that took all of about 5 minutes worth of effort on our part to totally explode the meme about Obama they're trying to push. The man's spending like there's no tomorrow and intends to keep on spending in that manner, and that's a fact.


________

Jul 12, 12 7:29

Post #23 of 35 (982 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [triblaq] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Why dooes the blame for spending reside with the President and not with the majority party in Congress?


slowguy

Jul 12, 12 9:04

Post #24 of 35 (965 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [big kahuna] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"And Obama IS the most profligate spender among presidents in history, lad. That's not my opinion, that's a fact."

You are a weakass GOP shill, who will say anything and defend any position in order to stir the shitpot of political dumbassery.

That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)


big kahuna

Jul 12, 12 9:45

Post #25 of 35 (950 views)
Re: Obama, spending like a drunken sailor... [slowguy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

slowguy wrote:
"And Obama IS the most profligate spender among presidents in history, lad. That's not my opinion, that's a fact."

You are a weakass GOP shill, who will say anything and defend any position in order to stir the shitpot of political dumbassery.

That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

I don't shill for the GOP, though I work for groups that have an interest in seeing Barack Obama out of office in January, 2013, as do I. We share a common foe, in other words. And I make no secret of that nor do I pretend to anything other than what I am. You could learn a solid lesson from me that would stand you in good stead, but you won't because you think your even-handed "middle of the road" shtick is something that's effective. Never mind that the bunny rabbit that sits in the middle of the road inevitably gets run over by something big.

And you still didn't address the central point, skip. That's THE FACT that Barack Obama is the most prodigious spender among the nation's presidents. Plenty of proof of that has been placed in front of you in this thread but you don't see it from your perch on Mount Olympus. Too bad for you, I guess. At any rate, Barack Obama has grown the federal government to a size that's totally out of whack. More than 130,000 federal employees in less than four years. That's more than Dubya Bushitler grew in eight years, by the way.

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The New Specialized Wind Tunnel
Will this be a game changer for Specialized, in both sales and product design, or will it not move the sales and design needle versus those in Specialized's competitive set?
Yes, Game Changer
Minor move forward
Won't budge the needle