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Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out
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Kudos to her for trying, and pretty sure she had the mental fortitude, ..but the physical requirements, and the fact of knowing that let your team down as the weakest physical link, is back-breaking.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Kudos to her for trying, and pretty sure she had the mental fortitude, ..but the physical requirements, and the fact of knowing that let your team down as the weakest physical link, is back-breaking.


I'm not shocked (and trust me when I say that she saw, maybe, 1/10th of one-percent of what she would have seen later, as her training progressed through the various phases). I went through BUD/S way back in the day and it was the hardest thing I'd ever tried in my life. Most guys "ring out" of the training as well. (Look up what "ringing out" entails and means.)

Word is Naval Special Warfare Command (and the Navy) isn't going to budge even a millimeter when it comes to lowering the physical (and mental) training requirements to become a special warfare operator in today's SEAL Team environment, which is a full order of magnitude more demanding -- physically and mentally -- than a few decades ago, believe me.

Lastly: women do not belong in at least the lead-slinging part of SPECOPS/SPECWAR. They can drive the boats and they can fly the helos and planes, sure. (Some of the smartest and most skilled helo pilots I knew out in the field were Army, Navy and Marine Corps women.) But the Frogman/Ranger/Special Forces/Air Force PJ stuff? NO.

At best, 1 out of 100 women may (MAY) make it through the physical screening test, then Naval Special Warfare Prep School, then BUD/S itself. We know this for a fact. So why are we futzing around with one of the finest special warfare communities in the world to accommodate one percent of a given Navy population group (BUD/S applicants)?

Anyway, here are a couple of articles I've written for the Houston Chronicle about Navy Special Warfare and the BUD/S selection, training and Navy SEAL career fields:

What Are Jobs in the Navy Seals? | Chron.com


Is Becoming a Navy Seal a Realistic Goal? | Chron.com
Last edited by: big kahuna: Aug 12, 17 7:07
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:


Lastly: women do not belong in at least the lead-slinging part of SPECOPS/SPECWAR. They can drive the boats and they can fly the helos and planes, sure. (Some of the smartest and most skilled helo pilots I knew out in the field were Army, Navy and Marine Corps women.) But the Frogman/Ranger/Special Forces/Air Force PJ stuff? NO.

agreed...but do i hear the pc police and sjw's rally cry?


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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [Madduck] [ In reply to ]
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Madduck wrote:
big kahuna wrote:


Lastly: women do not belong in at least the lead-slinging part of SPECOPS/SPECWAR. They can drive the boats and they can fly the helos and planes, sure. (Some of the smartest and most skilled helo pilots I knew out in the field were Army, Navy and Marine Corps women.) But the Frogman/Ranger/Special Forces/Air Force PJ stuff? NO.

agreed...but do i hear the pc police and sjw's rally cry?


Hahahaha! Why yes, you do hear that cry. ;-)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe they can start a Charlie's Angels program.


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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Lastly: women do not belong in at least the lead-slinging part of SPECOPS/SPECWAR. They can drive the boats and they can fly the helos and planes, sure. (Some of the smartest and most skilled helo pilots I knew out in the field were Army, Navy and Marine Corps women.) But the Frogman/Ranger/Special Forces/Air Force PJ stuff? NO.


Insert GI Jane suck my dick meme here

gi jane gif
Last edited by: Leddy: Aug 12, 17 10:47
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
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Lastly: women do not belong in at least the lead-slinging part of SPECOPS/SPECWAR. They can drive the boats and they can fly the helos and planes, sure. (Some of the smartest and most skilled helo pilots I knew out in the field were Army, Navy and Marine Corps women.) But the Frogman/Ranger/Special Forces/Air Force PJ stuff? NO.


Insert GI Jane suck my dick meme here

gi jane gif

GI Jane was a movie and a fairy tale about what goes on at BUD/S and then in the Teams.

Many men who spend a career in the SPECOPS or SPECWAR community are physically beaten up by the time they retire. And recent studies are saying that the cumulative effect of such activity on women who are doing "just" straight-leg infantry stuff and not even SPECOPS stuff tends to be even worse. Then there's the divorce rate, the drinking issues...it's not a pretty picture sometimes.

It sucks, but it's a fact: men are, ON AVERAGE, physically stronger than women. And SPECOPS and SPECWAR aren't looking for the average. They want more than that from a candidate. Most guys wash out of those kinds of military training courses. Why women -- who are supposed to be smarter than men -- would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Why women -- who are supposed to be smarter than men -- would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension. //

Why do men want to do this sort of work??
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Why women -- who are supposed to be smarter than men -- would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension. //

Why do men want to do this sort of work??

cuz were stooped.
my wife is a vball coach. she had a mentor when she first got started who wouldn't coach girls. his standard phrase, when asked to help with the girls, was, "they just don't get it...shit." after she started coaching girls on her own, she then got what he was saying. she loved the guy, he was a great coach and he always came and helped when asked and did what he could.

i told her coaching boys is like dealing with labs. you tell them to do something, no matter how stupid, and they'll go, "ok", and of we go. when we fail we laugh and our buds laugh at, and with, us.

then i told her that coaching girls is like trying to coach cats.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.

I don't know about the officers -- because all of us, O and E, went through the exact same prep phases back then, and almost everyone came either from the Fleet or from an officer accession source (USNA, OCS, etc.). I was an enlisted man at the time (an HM2). We had a LT(jg) and two Ensigns in the class, to start.

What we called "mini-BUD/S" ("Pre-Phase") back then was indeed the first three weeks before you began the 26-week, three-phase training course. You received your orders to report to the school in Coronado and away you went. The last week of that mini-training "pre-phase" was almost exactly the same as what you were going to be drilled (more like, "butt-f**ked" ;-) with during the first phase of your 26 weeks of training ( 8 weeks of physical training, drown-proofing, night events, ocean swims, long-distance rubber boat paddling, long beach runs in the soft or hard-packed sand on the Silver Strand, surf passage exercises etc., culminating in Hell Week).

Seriously, today's special warfare candidates and operators are a lot better-trained, and more rigorously screened and eventually more highly skilled than just a generation or so ago. My cover's off to them, and I'm glad the Navy's got 'em.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Why women -- who are supposed to be smarter than men -- would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension. //

Why do men want to do this sort of work??

Ummmm...because we're idiots? ;-)

Some of it is primal, is my guess.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
slowguy wrote:
She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.

I don't know about the officers -- because all of us, O and E, went through the exact same prep phases back then, and almost everyone came either from the Fleet or from an officer accession source (USNA, OCS, etc.). I was an enlisted man at the time (an HM2). We had a LT(jg) and two Ensigns in the class, to start.

What we called "mini-BUD/S" ("Pre-Phase") back then was indeed the first three weeks before you began the 26-week, three-phase training course. You received your orders to report to the school in Coronado and away you went. The last week of that mini-training "pre-phase" was almost exactly the same as what you were going to be drilled (more like, "butt-f**ked" ;-) with during the first phase of your 26 weeks of training ( 8 weeks of physical training, drown-proofing, night events, ocean swims, long-distance rubber boat paddling, long beach runs in the soft or hard-packed sand on the Silver Strand, surf passage exercises etc., culminating in Hell Week).

Seriously, today's special warfare candidates and operators are a lot better-trained, and more rigorously screened and eventually more highly skilled than just a generation or so ago. My cover's off to them, and I'm glad the Navy's got 'em.

My impression from reading the articles available, is that this is not pre-phase. This is the specific 3 week mini-BUD/S that is set up for midshipmen, to give them a taste of what BUD/s would be like, and to give ROTC and USNA an opportunity to see how they might do, before they head off to be SEAL candidates after graduation.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
slowguy wrote:
She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.


I don't know about the officers -- because all of us, O and E, went through the exact same prep phases back then, and almost everyone came either from the Fleet or from an officer accession source (USNA, OCS, etc.). I was an enlisted man at the time (an HM2). We had a LT(jg) and two Ensigns in the class, to start.

What we called "mini-BUD/S" ("Pre-Phase") back then was indeed the first three weeks before you began the 26-week, three-phase training course. You received your orders to report to the school in Coronado and away you went. The last week of that mini-training "pre-phase" was almost exactly the same as what you were going to be drilled (more like, "butt-f**ked" ;-) with during the first phase of your 26 weeks of training ( 8 weeks of physical training, drown-proofing, night events, ocean swims, long-distance rubber boat paddling, long beach runs in the soft or hard-packed sand on the Silver Strand, surf passage exercises etc., culminating in Hell Week).

Seriously, today's special warfare candidates and operators are a lot better-trained, and more rigorously screened and eventually more highly skilled than just a generation or so ago. My cover's off to them, and I'm glad the Navy's got 'em.


My impression from reading the articles available, is that this is not pre-phase. This is the specific 3 week mini-BUD/S that is set up for midshipmen, to give them a taste of what BUD/s would be like, and to give ROTC and USNA an opportunity to see how they might do, before they head off to be SEAL candidates after graduation.

Ah. Got it. Thanks. I didn't know she was an officer candidate of some sort (Middie, Ox, etc.).
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
slowguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
slowguy wrote:
She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.


I don't know about the officers -- because all of us, O and E, went through the exact same prep phases back then, and almost everyone came either from the Fleet or from an officer accession source (USNA, OCS, etc.). I was an enlisted man at the time (an HM2). We had a LT(jg) and two Ensigns in the class, to start.

What we called "mini-BUD/S" ("Pre-Phase") back then was indeed the first three weeks before you began the 26-week, three-phase training course. You received your orders to report to the school in Coronado and away you went. The last week of that mini-training "pre-phase" was almost exactly the same as what you were going to be drilled (more like, "butt-f**ked" ;-) with during the first phase of your 26 weeks of training ( 8 weeks of physical training, drown-proofing, night events, ocean swims, long-distance rubber boat paddling, long beach runs in the soft or hard-packed sand on the Silver Strand, surf passage exercises etc., culminating in Hell Week).

Seriously, today's special warfare candidates and operators are a lot better-trained, and more rigorously screened and eventually more highly skilled than just a generation or so ago. My cover's off to them, and I'm glad the Navy's got 'em.


My impression from reading the articles available, is that this is not pre-phase. This is the specific 3 week mini-BUD/S that is set up for midshipmen, to give them a taste of what BUD/s would be like, and to give ROTC and USNA an opportunity to see how they might do, before they head off to be SEAL candidates after graduation.

Ah. Got it. Thanks. I didn't know she was an officer candidate of some sort (Middie, Ox, etc.).

Well the Navy isn't identifying her, but that's how the articles I've read describe the training.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
slowguy wrote:
She just dropped out of mini-BUD/S, which is basically a 3 week taste of what BUD/S might be like. It's offered to midshipmen and ROTC students between junior and senior year of Academy/college. Any number of reasons she might have quit. On guy had to quit when I was at USNA because he got bronchitis. It's not an important enough training event to risk serious illness or injury, and as far as I know, it's not a prerequisite for selection to be a BUD/S candidate.


I don't know about the officers -- because all of us, O and E, went through the exact same prep phases back then, and almost everyone came either from the Fleet or from an officer accession source (USNA, OCS, etc.). I was an enlisted man at the time (an HM2). We had a LT(jg) and two Ensigns in the class, to start.

What we called "mini-BUD/S" ("Pre-Phase") back then was indeed the first three weeks before you began the 26-week, three-phase training course. You received your orders to report to the school in Coronado and away you went. The last week of that mini-training "pre-phase" was almost exactly the same as what you were going to be drilled (more like, "butt-f**ked" ;-) with during the first phase of your 26 weeks of training ( 8 weeks of physical training, drown-proofing, night events, ocean swims, long-distance rubber boat paddling, long beach runs in the soft or hard-packed sand on the Silver Strand, surf passage exercises etc., culminating in Hell Week).

Seriously, today's special warfare candidates and operators are a lot better-trained, and more rigorously screened and eventually more highly skilled than just a generation or so ago. My cover's off to them, and I'm glad the Navy's got 'em.


My impression from reading the articles available, is that this is not pre-phase. This is the specific 3 week mini-BUD/S that is set up for midshipmen, to give them a taste of what BUD/s would be like, and to give ROTC and USNA an opportunity to see how they might do, before they head off to be SEAL candidates after graduation.
Back in the 70's, they had a 3-week course for USAF Academy cadets that a few guys went to. (We all had three 3-week sessions every summer, one of which was normally "leave" and the other two you did some sort of military training.) I didn't have any desire to go (a combination of not wanting to get shit on for three weeks, I probably couldn't have passed the prescreening test which involved a lot of swimming, and my own common sense). But most of us thought that the guys who did go were pretty badass. They got to wear a neat "UDT" shoulder patch on their jacket, which (I think) stood for "underwater demolition team". Probably not the same course, but they said you did lots of PT in the sand and in the water (while having grenade simulators thrown in your direction), didn't get much sleep, and you got shit on all of the time by the instructors. Even now, it still doesn't sound like a great way to spend three weeks during the summer.



Some say "I can". Others say "I can't". Both manage to be correct.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Ummmm...because we're idiots? ;-)

Some of it is primal, is my guess. //

I got to know a lot of these guys back in the day since I was the one that sold them their new fangled wetsuits(OR's). I had a shop in the San Diego area and several of the seals were also triathletes. They loved their tri suits and convinced the bosses to convert to those from the old dive suits.


Anyway I figure just about any pro man triathlete from a swimming background could make it through BUDs, a few I know actually went and did it, Kerry Classen coming to mind. And you don't have to be huge, a couple of the guys were about 160lbs and about my size, unless things have changed. That is the physical side, on top of that you have to be one of those people that want to serve their country, and on top of that be highly competitive. These top units do not connect with the average Joe that just wants to serve, they want to be the best of the best and want in the shit.


There is no doubt in my mind that there are women that would make it through the entire physical course for becoming a seal, but they would have to be from a swimming/water polo/surfing background, and at a very high level for women. They would also have to be patriotic and competitive, which I assume is not just for men.


Of course since the entry level for women is a very small % compared to men, and when you add the other attributes, well the odds are not very good that someone like that will come along. My guess is this latest gal did not meet my requirement in the water, but most definitely had the other two. There are women out there that would not be the weakest seal out there, and they would not need a hand up to pass all the tests. Take a look at some of the crossfit women these days, probably a large % of current seals could not match up with them in strength. Just have to find that one that also was a pro surfer and water polo player who loves a good fight, and stands for every pledge of allegiance proudly and has to find that flag in the crowd.


Of course I'm ignoring any gender continuity arguments, that is a different topic than just making it..
Last edited by: monty: Aug 12, 17 15:32
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension.

IDK but had I been able to post the meme it might have been funny !
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Ummmm...because we're idiots? ;-)

Some of it is primal, is my guess. //

I got to know a lot of these guys back in the day since I was the one that sold them their new fangled wetsuits(OR's). I had a shop in the San Diego area and several of the seals were also triathletes. They loved their tri suits and convinced the bosses to convert to those from the old dive suits.


Anyway I figure just about any pro man triathlete from a swimming background could make it through BUDs, a few I know actually went and did it, Kerry Classen coming to mind. And you don't have to be huge, a couple of the guys were about 160lbs and about my size, unless things have changed. That is the physical side, on top of that you have to be one of those people that want to serve their country, and on top of that be highly competitive. These top units do not connect with the average Joe that just wants to serve, they want to be the best of the best and want in the shit.


There is no doubt in my mind that there are women that would make it through the entire physical course for becoming a seal, but they would have to be from a swimming/water polo/surfing background, and at a very high level for women. They would also have to be patriotic and competitive, which I assume is not just for men.


Of course since the entry level for women is a very small % compared to men, and when you add the other attributes, well the odds are not very good that someone like that will come along. My guess is this latest gal did not meet my requirement in the water, but most definitely had the other two. There are women out there that would not be the weakest seal out there, and they would not need a hand up to pass all the tests. Take a look at some of the crossfit women these days, probably a large % of current seals could not match up with them in strength. Just have to find that one that also was a pro surfer and water polo player who loves a good fight, and stands for every pledge of allegiance proudly and has to find that flag in the crowd.


Of course I'm ignoring any gender continuity arguments, that is a different topic than just making it..

I was going to say that the ones who did best at BUD/S during my time came from competitive high school or college swimming backgrounds. Not one of them dropped out. Some of that is the mental toughness that comes from doing endless yards in a pool, often at ungodly early hours or at early hours in sometimes very cold water. And every one of the "Ah-nuld" types in my class eventually dropped out. Every one. I didn't come from a competitive swimming background and so I struggled, sometimes horribly so, at times.

BTW: Coronado is where I first heard the words "triathlon" and "triathlete." The instructors told us to go sign up for one of those newfangled events, even if we had to rent a Huffy beach cruiser for a bike. Which some of us did. And then afterwards, we went to the Gator Gardens back on base (or the Country Bumpkin in I.B. ;-) and drank beer. LOL! (What's funny, though, is I didn't do Superfrog over at North Island until the early 90s.)

Other parts of your thesis above? I'm not so sure, at least from my personal experience. I've done ultras (going sub-10, which ain't a world-class skill set at that distance, but I was good enough to gain Tri-Fed and USAT AG All-American (top 10%) several times over a few different age groups, plus a few overall race wins at the shorter distances. I've put the training hours into the sport (Troy Jacobson used to make up my training plans back when he was first starting out in that side of the sport/business, and he's not one of those "short-but-intense-training-sessions" guys hahahahaha!). It's tough, no doubt. But BUD/S and what Team guys (and RECON Marines) go through -- and do? Ummmmmm...maybe when the water polo and swim studs are getting shot at at the same time, it'd be an accurate comparison? (Just kidding. :-)

Really, both worlds (triathlon and SPECOPS/SPECWAR) are unique and treasures unto themselves. I'm just not all that sure that we should be throwing over what is a lethally skilled and deadly serious community of warriors for the sake of an exceedingly small population group who isn't suffering anything, career-wise (for one), for not having had the chance to enter that community. To me, it's pretty much all downside and no real upside.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
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would even want to try to do that sort of work is beyond my comprehension.


IDK but had I been able to post the meme it might have been funny !

Oh, I know that meme. And thank you for trying to post it. It is, indeed, funny! :-)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Really, both worlds (triathlon and SPECOPS/SPECWAR) are unique and treasures unto themselves. I'm just not all that sure that we should be throwing over what is a lethally skilled and deadly serious community of warriors for the sake of an exceedingly small population group who isn't suffering anything, career-wise (for one), for not having had the chance to enter that community. To me, it's pretty much all downside and no real upside. //

I wasn't comparing the two different groups with each other, just pointing out that the physical skillsets each need are very similar. The triathlete women I had in mind were sub 9 hour gals, and a few water polo/pro triathlete girls came to mind too. And you are right in that the real swimmers have a much easier time with the physical side, I knew a lot of the muscle head types that barley got through (or didn't with advanced swimming skills. It really just comes down to comfort in the water, that translates to the hell in the water they put your through. Pro big wave surfers get hold downs that would make most seals cry in their beds, but as you say there is more to it than that.


I'm not throwing them over at all, in fact I bow down to what they sign up for and are capable of doing. I'm just pointing out that there are a group of people just as capable physically if they wanted and were given the chance. I understand the feeling to keep the status quo for a group like this though, I'll stipulate to that being a valid reason to keep it a mens club...
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Really, both worlds (triathlon and SPECOPS/SPECWAR) are unique and treasures unto themselves. I'm just not all that sure that we should be throwing over what is a lethally skilled and deadly serious community of warriors for the sake of an exceedingly small population group who isn't suffering anything, career-wise (for one), for not having had the chance to enter that community. To me, it's pretty much all downside and no real upside. //

I wasn't comparing the two different groups with each other, just pointing out that the physical skillsets each need are very similar. The triathlete women I had in mind were sub 9 hour gals, and a few water polo/pro triathlete girls came to mind too. And you are right in that the real swimmers have a much easier time with the physical side, I knew a lot of the muscle head types that barley got through (or didn't with advanced swimming skills. It really just comes down to comfort in the water, that translates to the hell in the water they put your through. Pro big wave surfers get hold downs that would make most seals cry in their beds, but as you say there is more to it than that.


I'm not throwing them over at all, in fact I bow down to what they sign up for and are capable of doing. I'm just pointing out that there are a group of people just as capable physically if they wanted and were given the chance. I understand the feeling to keep the status quo for a group like this though, I'll stipulate to that being a valid reason to keep it a mens club...

As always, you make great points and have given us (including me) something to think about. Thanks for adding so much to the colloquy. :-)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't comparing the two different groups with each other, just pointing out that the physical skillsets each need are very similar.

Moderately so. I'd say the key similarities are (generally) comfort in the water, and ability to suffer. The key for a SEAL (or most other Special Forces guys) is the ability to suffer for extended periods and simply not quit. Comfort in the water is also important for SEALs, as you said, because you're in the water so much. You have to be able to function in bad water conditions, underwater under duress without panicking. Lots of SEALs were swimmers or water polo players. However, there's a lot of upper body strength required as well. I'm not talking about body builder muscles, but real functional strength. Lots of triathletes are a bit weak in the upper body. Push-ups, pull-ups, dips, over-head press (like carrying around a soaking log over your head) etc all wear you down fast, and lots of triathletes aren't nearly as strong in the upper body as they are in the core and legs.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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However, there's a lot of upper body strength required as well. I'm not talking about body builder muscles, but real functional strength. Lots of triathletes are a bit weak in the upper body. Push-ups, pull-ups, dips, over-head press (like carrying around a soaking log over your head) etc all wear you down fast, and lots of triathletes aren't nearly as strong in the upper body as they are in the core and legs. //


I agree with the strength issue, but it is easily solved by just gaining a ton of muscle on top of your swimming core. I remember Kerry as a waifish endurance pro triathlete and adventure racer, then saw him later after his stint in the seals with 20 to 30 extra pounds. Hell, even the actor that played in that navy seal movie gained like 40 lbs in under a year for the role, it is not that hard if you are motivated. You are plugging in the 4 to 6% body fat athletes into those seal roles, they can change all that if they have a mind to. And I remember one guy who was one of the original seals I knew back in the early to mid 80's, and he couldn't have been over 155 and about 5'9" maybe? He would routinely place in his AG in Kona too, and back then they also had an armed services division he would podium in. So not entirely a requirement to be big and strong, but certainly a bonus if you are.
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Re: Navy: Only woman in SEAL training pipeline drops out [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Kudos to her for trying, and pretty sure she had the mental fortitude, ..but the physical requirements, and the fact of knowing that let your team down as the weakest physical link, is back-breaking.

Uhhh dude, she finished 20 years ago..

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