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Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High
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Makes one pine for the good old days of the pot black markets. ;-)

Looks like dope smokers are going to pay sharply higher premiums for life insurance, with some issuers categorizing it as being just as risky as cigarette smoking. For example, the cost for a 20-year, $1 million life insurance policy can be as much as five times greater than for a similar policy issued to a non-cigarette, non-pot smoking individual. Ouch!

"There are no consistent industry mandates, or best practices, as marijuana comes out of the shadows and is legal in eight US states and the District of Columbia. “We don’t get into that side of things, that is something for individual company operations,” Jack Dolan of the American Council of Life Insurance told The Post, referring to insurance companies’ marijuana rules."

Pot smokers’ insurance premiums to get high | New York Post
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Reason number 12 why I’ll never get a “medical” marijuana card.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Reason number 12 why I’ll never get a “medical” marijuana card.

I thought the exact same thing. Get the card and you'll simultaneously hit the tax and insurance electronic records databases.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Reason number 12 why I’ll never get a “medical” marijuana card.

I thought the exact same thing. Get the card and you'll simultaneously hit the tax and insurance electronic records databases.

Not to mention the fact that you are admitting to committing a federal crime.

”look, duffy is a great lover. the best!” -

slowman (owner of slowtwitch.com) 10/01/17
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Reason number 12 why I’ll never get a “medical” marijuana card.


I thought the exact same thing. Get the card and you'll simultaneously hit the tax and insurance electronic records databases.


Not to mention the fact that you are admitting to committing a federal crime.

Well, there is that. Every presidential administration will no doubt handle such things in their own individual way when it comes to enforcing that law (which supersedes state laws), at least until Congress steps in -- if it ever does -- and reconciles the differences between harsher (my mellow! ;-) federal law and more easygoing (more mellow ;-) state laws.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.

I don't know the science. Some research has said it's as bad, maybe because of how the smoke is drawn so deeply into the lungs and so forth, and some research has said it's not nearly as bad or has no ill effect whatsoever. Insurance companies are risk-averse, though, and until a common standard about pot is reached I think you're going to see the insurance markets pricing in risk accordingly.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.

If you smoked as much of it as the average tobacco smoker it sure would be.

Imagine being a two pack a day marajuana smoker.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [knewbike] [ In reply to ]
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knewbike wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


If you smoked as much of it as the average tobacco smoker it sure would be.

Imagine being a two pack a day marajuana smoker.

I had some friends growing up, starting in high school, who smoked whenever and wherever possible and all day. Others, it was one joint a day. Too much of anything isn't good for you, maybe. ;-)

We need some volunteers for a longitudinal study to explore this vital research topic. Maybe get some grants from the government as well. I think two to three decades worth would suffice. LOL!
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


I don't know the science. Some research has said it's as bad, maybe because of how the smoke is drawn so deeply into the lungs and so forth, and some research has said it's not nearly as bad or has no ill effect whatsoever. Insurance companies are risk-averse, though, and until a common standard about pot is reached I think you're going to see the insurance markets pricing in risk accordingly.

I looked a couple of years ago when it was legalized in Maine to incorporate more info. into a class i teach. What I found was that other than bronchitis, the link to marijuana and the common smoking related risk is pretty thin to non-existent at best. And it's not like people haven't been looking, so you'd think if the effect was large it would be fairly easy to observe.

With tobacco you get large increases in cardiovascular disease, many cancers and COPD. With marijuana seemed like the only well-established one was the bronchitis component of COPD, even the link to emphysema and lung cancer were weak at best, and you'd have to figure those would the most likely. Just seems far from evidence based to lump pot smokers (let alone those using another way) in with tobacco users.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [knewbike] [ In reply to ]
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knewbike wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


If you smoked as much of it as the average tobacco smoker it sure would be.

Imagine being a two pack a day marajuana smoker.

Right, since almost no one smokes as much marijuana as your typical smoker is the difference simply volume related or is marijuana use inherently safer than tobacco use.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
knewbike wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


If you smoked as much of it as the average tobacco smoker it sure would be.

Imagine being a two pack a day marajuana smoker.


Right, since almost no one smokes as much marijuana as your typical smoker is the difference simply volume related or is marijuana use inherently safer than tobacco use.

Maybe the risk when it comes to pricing life insurance comes in other ways. Diminished or decreased reaction times when driving automobiles, riding bikes or flying planes, for instance. Lowered inhibitions that might make people take more risks in other activities?

I don't know, because my only experience with the substance has been from being around people who've smoked it. I've never done so, or done any other illegal or illicit drugs. Nope. I just drank a lot of good-old All-American alcoholic beverages in my day. ;-)
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I just found around $100 worth of pot in a sealed container from a nearby dispensary. It was on the ground in a field I walk my dog at. I guess some guy had his friday night plans ruined when he realized he dropped it in the field on the way home from the dispensary last night.

I'm going to have to do my own research on this subject and get back to you.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
I just found around $100 worth of pot in a sealed container from a nearby dispensary. It was on the ground in a field I walk my dog at. I guess some guy had his friday night plans ruined when he realized he dropped it in the field on the way home from the dispensary last night.

I'm going to have to do my own research on this subject and get back to you.

Give us a full write-up! After you overeat and take a nap, that is. ;-)
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-146853/Why-cannabis-greater-cancer-risk-tobacco.html


There is some evidence that 2nd hand the affect is worse then tobacco. Where there is smoke, their are bound to be carcinogens.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
I just found around $100 worth of pot in a sealed container from a nearby dispensary. It was on the ground in a field I walk my dog at. I guess some guy had his friday night plans ruined when he realized he dropped it in the field on the way home from the dispensary last night.

I'm going to have to do my own research on this subject and get back to you.

Give us a full write-up! After you overeat and take a nap, that is. ;-)

I'll probably forget to!
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
I just found around $100 worth of pot in a sealed container from a nearby dispensary. It was on the ground in a field I walk my dog at. I guess some guy had his friday night plans ruined when he realized he dropped it in the field on the way home from the dispensary last night.

I'm going to have to do my own research on this subject and get back to you.


Give us a full write-up! After you overeat and take a nap, that is. ;-)


I'll probably forget to!

Completely understandable! ;-)
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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jwbeuk wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-146853/Why-cannabis-greater-cancer-risk-tobacco.html


There is some evidence that 2nd hand the affect is worse then tobacco. Where there is smoke, their are bound to be carcinogens.


If you read that article critically it basically says what i said (leaving aside it's a popular news piece not a scientific article). Only real good evidence is for bronchitis, the rest is a tenuous link probably because whatever carcinogens marijuana has very few people are smoking 3 joints a day. That is a lot of pot smoking, whereas I don't think a pack a day of cigarettes is that uncommon.

Not to mention the logic the pot is stronger therefore it's worse for you today makes no sense. If the psychotropic effects are stronger that means you don't have to smoke as much to get high and hence less chance of the smoke-related diseases like bronchitis and cancer.

I'm not arguing pot smoking is safe but the idea that it's as bad as tobacco seems to be stretching it, by a good bit.

There's no need to refute the notion that "pot is safe" by hyperbolic misinformation.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Nov 11, 17 9:06
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I attended a talk on this recently, at this years' AARC conference. It was a systematic review of the respiratory effects of recreational Marijuana use. Their conclusion was that the evidence is suggestive of very similar risks from smoking marijuana vs tobacco, which really shouldn't be a big surprise. The evidence is weak since it is difficult to do a large enough scale study to generate strong evidence.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [Ex-Rower] [ In reply to ]
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(Just replying to the last post in the thread)

Isn't most tobacco in commercially produced cigarettes highly "manipulated" in order to provide an even burn and not set a person's mattress on fire? Perhaps most "legally" grown cannabis has fewer unnaturally occurring compounds in it, thus a lower cancer risk? I don't smoke either substance, FWIW.

Brett

"Du or Du not-there is no Tri" - Yoda
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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jwbeuk wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-146853/Why-cannabis-greater-cancer-risk-tobacco.html


There is some evidence that 2nd hand the affect is worse then tobacco. Where there is smoke, their are bound to be carcinogens.
I don't partake, but I'd be interested to see a comparison of carcinogens from smoking vs vaping.
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Insurers are not only risk adverse, they have also done their homework:

https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201467
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529

These are only TWO of many studies showing how Cannabis alters brain chemistry....and behavior, and probably predisposition to certain neurodegenerative disorders.

I am sure all these mind-alterations are for the better, and that we are smarter than nature, who decided to NOT overuse these pathways.

And I am not even touching on the widespread abuse of ADHD drugs and amphetamines healthy kids are getting to pop.

You think the current opioid 'crisis' is bad?

Just lean back and enjoy the ride!
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [Ex-Rower] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-Rower wrote:
I attended a talk on this recently, at this years' AARC conference. It was a systematic review of the respiratory effects of recreational Marijuana use. Their conclusion was that the evidence is suggestive of very similar risks from smoking marijuana vs tobacco, which really shouldn't be a big surprise. The evidence is weak since it is difficult to do a large enough scale study to generate strong evidence.

So why the strong link with bronchitis but not emphysema and lung cancer?
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Insurers are not only risk adverse, they have also done their homework:

https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201467
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529

These are only TWO of many studies showing how Cannabis alters brain chemistry....and behavior, and probably predisposition to certain neurodegenerative disorders.

I am sure all these mind-alterations are for the better, and that we are smarter than nature, who decided to NOT overuse these pathways.

And I am not even touching on the widespread abuse of ADHD drugs and amphetamines healthy kids are getting to pop.

You think the current opioid 'crisis' is bad?

Just lean back and enjoy the ride!

So life insurance companies know people are dying prematurely from neurological changes associated with pot smoking?

Really you think pot smoking is going to rival the opioid problems? Given that you can’t OD on pot? And there’s no injection, which causes a lot of the chronic health issues with opioid use, with pot either?
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Re: Market Forces at Work: Dope Smokers' Life Insurance Premiums to Get High [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
knewbike wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Is there any evidence that pot smoking is anywhere near as bad for you as tobacco? Seems a bit ridiculous.


If you smoked as much of it as the average tobacco smoker it sure would be.

Imagine being a two pack a day marajuana smoker.


We need some volunteers for a longitudinal study to explore this vital research topic. Maybe get some grants from the government as well. I think two to three decades worth would suffice. LOL!


That’s exactly what we need because quite often the results from more basic studies using animal models or looking at underlying changes in humans that you would think should lead to predictable health outcomes don’t.

There must be plenty of people out there who have been smoking pot frequently for decades, I know i can think of a few off the top of my head, and it's not like I'm associating regularly with people likely to fall into that category.

It would be nice to know the dose-response relationship too. Maybe it's like alcohol, where a little bit is pretty much harmless (or even beneficial) but a lot will absolutely wreck your health. Or maybe a little is dangerous, or maybe a lot isn't. No one knows until its studied.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Nov 12, 17 2:39
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