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Happy Columbus Day!
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Samuel Eliot Morison:

"At the end of 1492 most men in Western Europe felt exceedingly gloomy about the future. Christian civilization appeared to be shrinking in area and dividing into hostile units as its sphere contracted. For over a century there had been no important advance in natural science and registration in the universities dwindled as the instruction they offered became increasingly jejune and lifeless. Institutions were decaying, well-meaning people were growing cynical or desperate, and many intelligent men, for want of something better to do, were endeavoring to escape the present through studying the pagan past. . . .

Yet, even as the chroniclers of Nuremberg were correcting their proofs from Koberger’s press, a Spanish caravel named Nina scudded before a winter gale into Lisbon with news of a discovery that was to give old Europe another chance. In a few years we find the mental picture completely changed. Strong monarchs are stamping out privy conspiracy and rebellion; the Church, purged and chastened by the Protestant Reformation, puts her house in order; new ideas flare up throughout Italy, France, Germany and the northern nations; faith in God revives and the human spirit is renewed. The change is complete and startling: “A new envisagement of the world has begun, and men are no longer sighing after the imaginary golden age that lay in the distant past, but speculating as to the golden age that might possibly lie in the oncoming future.”

Christopher Columbus belonged to an age that was past, yet he became the sign and symbol of this new age of hope, glory and accomplishment. His medieval faith impelled him to a modern solution: Expansion."

(From Morison's Pulitzer Prize-winning 1991 masterpiece "Admiral of the Ocean Sea: A Life of Christopher Columbus")
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Fuck columbus




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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It is the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Happy Canadian turkey day as well.

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus

Why? If he hadn't "found" America you think no one else would have?
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus


I figured the over / under was 3 replies but you went there in 1. Well done.
Last edited by: Leddy: Oct 9, 17 5:21
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus


Why? If he hadn't "found" America you think no one else would have?

Leaving aside the white guilt-filled exclamation of our friend ( ;-) ), I personally believe John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) was the Italian explorer whose journey, to Newfoundland, was probably more important in terms of what would become English-speaking North America (Canada and the US).

It was his discoveries that set a spark to the massive stream of human migration to what became the English-speaking New World. Sooner or later, British (English) expansion would have recreated the Vikings' own efforts at exploration of that region of the North Atlantic, for sure. Cabot was in the right place and the right time, after Columbus' signal journeys to the Caribbean brought life to what would become the Spanish-speaking New World known as Latin America, to take advantage of the newfound desire by Western Europeans to explore.

And Giovanni Caboto (who'd moved to England and adopted the Anglicized version of his name) was himself the progenitor -- the Godfather, so to speak LOL! -- that gave birth to the phenomenon of millions of Italian immigrants who would eventually cross the Atlantic to North America and become part of the English-speaking world. How great is that? :-)


As to the anti-occidental prejudices that seem to be de rigeur nowadays among the enlightened few, it would be well to remember that slavery, cannibalism, warfare and human sacrifice all existed in the Americas before Columbus even thought of navigating a trio of small, leaky caravels across the vast expanse of the Atlantic.

Understanding that this was so, I'm not so quick to point fingers Columbus's (and Cabot's) way.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus


I figured the over / under was 3 replies but you went there in 1. Well done.


Hahahahahaha! Hey, a leopard can't change its spots. And a tiger surely can't change its stripes, either. ;-)
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
It is the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Happy Canadian turkey day as well.

That's awesome! :-)
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?

Do you know what the dawes roll is?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

My grandmother on my father's side was half-Apache from Texas, and looked full. Chances are, many of us here in the LR can also claim some Native American heritage.

I appreciate Columbus, just as a I appreciate Cabot, Vespucci and other explorers, for their audacity, especially in a time, as Morison noted, when Western Europeans found themselves in a rut in a number of ways, and possibly caught in the throes of a fatal senescence. We can argue all day about what would have become of North America had Western Europeans not arrived but that seems to me to be an exercise in futility.

Some other civilization of at least technological superiority would have came here eventually, this much is for certain. Relict Native American bands, tribes and nations, none of which had demonstrated any technological advancement despite millennia of tribal and societal development, most likely would have still come out of the experience none too happy, unfortunately. (Although the Hopi did build some impressive structures, they were mean as snakes and not welcoming of others, according to most contemporary accounts by not only settlers but also other tribes, including the Apache and the Navajo.)
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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It is always helpful to reread this once a year when people start really ramping up their Columbus appreciation.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

===============
Trump is like a terrible DJ in an awesome club.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I never knew people hated Columbus until I visited the LR.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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Happy Bartolome day!

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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We have a Caboto club in Windsor which is a massive place. So big they can have four Italian weddings at the same time. For years I wondered why they named it the Caboto club until one day the light bulb went on.

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I read an interesting book a few years ago: Blue Latitutes: Boldly Going Where Columbus Had Gone Before (may not be the exact title but close enough), written by Tony Horwitz.

It's very blue collar so anyone who requires hardcore historical blathering won't enjoy it. I'm really into long-distance sailing / exploring and that is the angle this writer took - he basically took a small sailboat and visited many of the places that Columbus visited and explored the impact of his visit both historically and up to today. To me, it was quite enlightening - not fanciful, not academic, but the real world through the lens of a real journalist.

The net for me was the realization that opening up these islanders to 'commerce' also opened them up to greed, gluttony, disease, and a great dilution of their culture. Others would likely interpret the result differently that I have. Perhaps it was all inevitable but hardly a feel good story once the realities are understood in simple terms.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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If you have not already read it Tim Cahill's book, "How the Irish Saved Civilization" was enjoyed very much by me. Basically its the story of how Irish monks preserved learning and books while the rest Europe was going down the toilet in the Middle Ages. The Irish's somewhat earthy and humane version of Christianity was something I remember. The title is a somewhat hyperbolic but maybe that is an Irish thing?

Life is full of froth and trouble, two things stand in stone
Kindness in another's troubles, courage in one's own
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus

What do you have against public school education?

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
If you have not already read it Tim Cahill's book, "How the Irish Saved Civilization" was enjoyed very much by me. Basically its the story of how Irish monks preserved learning and books while the rest Europe was going down the toilet in the Middle Ages. The Irish's somewhat earthy and humane version of Christianity was something I remember. The title is a somewhat hyperbolic but maybe that is an Irish thing?


I really liked that piece. I had an appreciation for the Irish monks and what they had done, and the book really filled out a lot of the spaces. It's unbelievable how close Western Civilization came, in spots, to dying out.
Last edited by: big kahuna: Oct 9, 17 10:29
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus

What do you have against public school education?

Their method of selecting textbooks by people who like to whitewash and hinder scienetific education is pretty effective for them so far.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?

Do you know what the dawes roll is?

Native American tribal list. I reiterate what's your point?
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?

Do you know what the dawes roll is?

Native American tribal list. I reiterate what's your point?

Can you then deduce why i might take umbrage beyond "white guilt"?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
The title is a somewhat hyperbolic but maybe that is an Irish thing?
Let me guess you're of English stock
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
len wrote:
If you have not already read it Tim Cahill's book, "How the Irish Saved Civilization" was enjoyed very much by me. Basically its the story of how Irish monks preserved learning and books while the rest Europe was going down the toilet in the Middle Ages. The Irish's somewhat earthy and humane version of Christianity was something I remember. The title is a somewhat hyperbolic but maybe that is an Irish thing?


I really liked that piece. I had an appreciation for the Irish monks and what they had done, and the book really filled out a lot of the spaces. It's unbelievable how close Western Civilization came, in spots, to dying out.

Til the Irish saved it
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