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50+
Jul 4, 12 4:44
Post #26 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [slowguy]
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spot
Jul 4, 12 4:52
Post #27 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [veganerd]
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I was really hoping to learn something on this thread about the Higgs Boson, but instead it was instantly derailed by somebody who just *had* to insert some jackass anti-religion remarks. OK, look, we get it: You think religion is stupid. Now, can we move on and not have you hijack every scientific thread out there with your opinion?
Spot
_______________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backward is....taco cat.
50+
Jul 4, 12 5:00
Post #28 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [spot]
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I don't mind it was fun to read that being said , getting back to the OP I don't think finding the Higgs is going to answer anything and it cost 10's of billions of dollars to build this thing. They were hoping it's discovery would lead to finally solving the grand unification thing that is having one theory for everything.
knewbike
Jul 4, 12 5:18
Post #29 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [50+]
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Yes. To explain how gravitational, electrical and nuclear forces all come from the same thing. At least that is the hope. I think it will take a bit more thinking outside the box even if the particle is isolated. It is already stupid hard to imagine the bending of space and the flexibility of time. What kind of unperceived next dimension is going to make this all come together? Will it be impossible to express it as a formula? Will it be a simple stupid formula with a very complex explanation? Is it futile?
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 5:39
Post #30 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [knewbike]
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knewbike wrote:
Yes. To explain how gravitational, electrical and nuclear forces all come from the same thing. At least that is the hope. I think it will take a bit more thinking outside the box even if the particle is isolated. It is already stupid hard to imagine the bending of space and the flexibility of time. What kind of unperceived next dimension is going to make this all come together? Will it be impossible to express it as a formula? Will it be a simple stupid formula with a very complex explanation? Is it futile?
I'm torn as to a unified theory. Part of me thinks it's just around the corner and will be explained in our lifetime due to the amazing advances in cosmo. the last 50 years. But part of me thinks we are just getting the smallest glimpse and are miles from even slightly grasping at a unified theory. All conjecture on my part.
As a kid, I always wanted to be an astronaut. The books I read at the library had mock-ups of spacecraft for 2010+. I remember the moon shot as a 2 year old fairly clearly and they sent us home from school to pray, according to Congress, when Apollo 13 was in trouble! So, judging from '69 and '73, I was sure we would have stations on other planets by 2010+ and I would be on a station. Sadly, wars and lack of vision have killed our space program and I fear I will be too old to live "out there" if it ever happens.
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 5:54
Post #31 of 445
(1167 views)
Re: God particle found? [veganerd]
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veganerd wrote:
Praying to a zombie who was sometimes nice and sometimes a dick who acted as if he was sacrificing something is rational?
So, he seemed human then? He had a personality with the range of emotions we have: love, forgiveness, anger, frustration, etc. Thanks for confirming the NT accounts depict a real, human figure with normal human actions. But no, zombies don't make great speeches like the Beatitudes or heal demoniacs. I know you are just trying to get a rise out of the Christians here but go to Saudi Arabia and call Mohammed a zombie. See how well that goes over! You're just going for the easy, forgiving targets here. You don't seem to be going after other religions where the penalty might be jail or beheading. But please ask yourself at some point, "why do I hate Christ and his followers in particular?"
justgeorge
Jul 4, 12 6:01
Post #32 of 445
(1160 views)
Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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But the few facts we have in Genesis have never been refuted. In fact, science has only confirmed Genesis repeatedly!
Were Adam and Eve Cro.Magnons or Neanderthals? I've always wondered that.
50+
Jul 4, 12 6:04
Post #33 of 445
(1160 views)
Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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Gurudriver10 wrote:
knewbike wrote:
Yes. To explain how gravitational, electrical and nuclear forces all come from the same thing. At least that is the hope. I think it will take a bit more thinking outside the box even if the particle is isolated. It is already stupid hard to imagine the bending of space and the flexibility of time. What kind of unperceived next dimension is going to make this all come together? Will it be impossible to express it as a formula? Will it be a simple stupid formula with a very complex explanation? Is it futile?
I'm torn as to a unified theory. Part of me thinks it's just around the corner and will be explained in our lifetime due to the amazing advances in cosmo. the last 50 years. But part of me thinks we are just getting the smallest glimpse and are miles from even slightly grasping at a unified theory. All conjecture on my part.
Agreed. Part of me though hopes they never figure it out as to me it's all about the journey the quest for knowledge and finding new things, if they do find a theory of everything is that it? is that all there is? What would they do with it?
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 6:06
Post #34 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Dilbert]
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Dilbert wrote:
Ahhh collective mental illness known as religion.
You are correct. Religion is a poor substitute for worshiping and loving a true, living God like Jesus. You agree with him and his teachings! : )
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 6:40
Post #35 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [50+]
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50+ wrote:
Gurudriver10 wrote:
knewbike wrote:
Yes. To explain how gravitational, electrical and nuclear forces all come from the same thing. At least that is the hope. I think it will take a bit more thinking outside the box even if the particle is isolated. It is already stupid hard to imagine the bending of space and the flexibility of time. What kind of unperceived next dimension is going to make this all come together? Will it be impossible to express it as a formula? Will it be a simple stupid formula with a very complex explanation? Is it futile?
I'm torn as to a unified theory. Part of me thinks it's just around the corner and will be explained in our lifetime due to the amazing advances in cosmo. the last 50 years. But part of me thinks we are just getting the smallest glimpse and are miles from even slightly grasping at a unified theory. All conjecture on my part.
Agreed. Part of me though hopes they never figure it out as to me it's all about the journey the quest for knowledge and finding new things, if they do find a theory of everything is that it? is that all there is? What would they do with it?
A unified theory might lead to an unlimited energy source!! That would solve a ton of problems. In Star Trek, they don't use $$ anymore. That would be nice. We could spend our time not worrying about resources and avoid wars. Borders of countries would be nullified. Unlimited energy = no currency required. A unified theory might open up time travel or the ability to cover vast distances by sneaking through worm holes and "shortcuts" through space. Who knows? Maybe the speed of information transfer can be ameliorated to the point that we can obtain and understand data 10x quicker than we do now. But make no mistake, the questions of morality and mortality will still come into play regardless. That's the real battleground.
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 6:44
Post #36 of 445
(1145 views)
Re: God particle found? [justgeorge]
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justgeorge wrote:
But the few facts we have in Genesis have never been refuted. In fact, science has only confirmed Genesis repeatedly!
Were Adam and Eve Cro.Magnons or Neanderthals? I've always wondered that.
What makes you say that? They are described with human attributes of speech, they named all the animals, knew the identity of God, had to cover their nakedness (which means they weren't furry), etc.
justgeorge
Jul 4, 12 6:54
Post #37 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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I thought it was a pretty simple question. Were Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis Neanderthals, Cro-magnons, homo Sapiens, or something else?
Also how long ago was that?
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veganerd
Jul 4, 12 6:56
Post #38 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [spot]
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spot wrote:
I was really hoping to learn something on this thread about the Higgs Boson, but instead it was instantly derailed by somebody who just *had* to insert some jackass anti-religion remarks. OK, look, we get it: You think religion is stupid. Now, can we move on and not have you hijack every scientific thread out there with your opinion?
Spot
They also didnt get there by studying neurology or reading bottany textbooks.
Would say that I think neurology or botany is stupid? is that an anti science comment or was I just pointing out what they didnt do?
enemy of epilepsy
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 7:07
Post #39 of 445
(1130 views)
Re: God particle found? [justgeorge]
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justgeorge wrote:
I thought it was a pretty simple question. Were Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis Neanderthals, Cro-magnons, homo Sapiens, or something else?
Dunno. We don't have their dna specifically. All we have is a sketch of what they said, thought, and did during a short span in the Garden. We do know God conjured Adam from the dust of the earth and made him chief of all animals before the Fall. One thing we know of humans now is that we can outrun all animals on earth according to "Born to Run", ie we outrun horses after about 25 miles and cheetahs overheat and lay in the grass after very short bursts of speed. If we are animals, we are chief of all animals at the very least, as the Bible describes.
Not to mention, we have creativity and musings that other animals don't have (or at least can't write or depict). We build hospitals, ponder the afterlife, creatively write about things we've never actually seen. There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter. In short, we are made in God's image, unlike any other animal. To say we are animals is only a partially true description. We are much more than any other animal on earth. What were Adam and Eve? As human as we are now at the very least. What did they look like? I really have no clue.
golum
Jul 4, 12 8:30
Post #40 of 445
(1107 views)
Re: God particle found? [50+]
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Yawn. Wake me up when they find a room temperature superconductor.
pjnow00
Jul 4, 12 8:47
Post #41 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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Gurudriver10 wrote:
justgeorge wrote:
I thought it was a pretty simple question. Were Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis Neanderthals, Cro-magnons, homo Sapiens, or something else?
Dunno. We don't have their dna specifically. All we have is a sketch of what they said, thought, and did during a short span in the Garden. We do know God conjured Adam from the dust of the earth and made him chief of all animals before the Fall. One thing we know of humans now is that
we can outrun all animals on earth
according to "Born to Run", ie we outrun horses after about 25 miles and cheetahs overheat and lay in the grass after very short bursts of speed. If we are animals, we are chief of all animals at the very least, as the Bible describes.
Not to mention, we have creativity and musings that other animals don't have (or at least can't write or depict). We build hospitals, ponder the afterlife, creatively write about things we've never actually seen. There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter. In short, we are made in God's image, unlike any other animal. To say we are animals is only a partially true description. We are much more than any other animal on earth.
What were Adam and Eve? As human as we are now at the very least.
What did they look like? I really have no clue.
We may be able to run for a sustained period longer than most animals, but we can not "out run" every animal. Early humans were most certainly persistence hunters, but that does not mean that they could out run a crocodile, lion or other top predator if it was chasing them.
So, as you state Adam and Eve were human, presumably Cain, Abel and Seth were also human. Cain killed Abel, so we're left with Adam, Cain, Seth and Eve. Sooo, fast forward 6000 years ( not my number, presumably yours ), where did the other 7 billion of us come from if we are all descendants of Adam, Cain, Seth and Eve? Must have been some serious incest going on there for a few generations...
"
There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter
" is there? Prove it. And what is the "next critter"?
klehner
Jul 4, 12 9:03
Post #42 of 445
(1094 views)
Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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Gurudriver10 wrote:
justgeorge wrote:
I thought it was a pretty simple question. Were Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis Neanderthals, Cro-magnons, homo Sapiens, or something else?
Dunno. We don't have their dna specifically. All we have is a sketch of what they said, thought, and did during a short span in the Garden. We do know God conjured Adam from the dust of the earth and made him chief of all animals before the Fall. One thing we know of humans now is that we can outrun all animals on earth according to "Born to Run", ie we outrun horses after about 25 miles and cheetahs overheat and lay in the grass after very short bursts of speed. If we are animals, we are chief of all animals at the very least, as the Bible describes.
Not to mention, we have creativity and musings that other animals don't have (or at least can't write or depict). We build hospitals, ponder the afterlife, creatively write about things we've never actually seen. There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter. In short, we are made in God's image, unlike any other animal. To say we are animals is only a partially true description. We are much more than any other animal on earth. What were Adam and Eve? As human as we are now at the very least. What did they look like? I really have no clue.
And we do have Eve's DNA, all of us, and it points to a woman about 200,000 years ago.
We can't outrun pronghorns over any distance, so there goes that conceit.
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Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy
Freelancer
Jul 4, 12 10:12
Post #43 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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Why does the maker of heaven and earth need you to defend him every time some one takes a jab? I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself. At some point, it seems to be less about you glorifying god and more about your human desire to be right. Why not just let it go? Has anyone's decision on faith really been influenced by the endless threads on slowtwitch? Can't we just get back to talking about Lance?
I ran. I ran until my muscles burned and my veins pumped battery acid. Then I ran some more.
pjnow00
Jul 4, 12 10:29
Post #44 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Freelancer]
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Freelancer wrote:
Can't we just get back to talking about Lance?
<easy cheapshot> Lance thinks we were...</easy cheapshot>
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 11:09
Post #45 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [pjnow00]
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pjnow00 wrote:
Gurudriver10 wrote:
justgeorge wrote:
I thought it was a pretty simple question. Were Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis Neanderthals, Cro-magnons, homo Sapiens, or something else?
Dunno. We don't have their dna specifically. All we have is a sketch of what they said, thought, and did during a short span in the Garden. We do know God conjured Adam from the dust of the earth and made him chief of all animals before the Fall. One thing we know of humans now is that
we can outrun all animals on earth
according to "Born to Run", ie we outrun horses after about 25 miles and cheetahs overheat and lay in the grass after very short bursts of speed. If we are animals, we are chief of all animals at the very least, as the Bible describes.
Not to mention, we have creativity and musings that other animals don't have (or at least can't write or depict). We build hospitals, ponder the afterlife, creatively write about things we've never actually seen. There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter. In short, we are made in God's image, unlike any other animal. To say we are animals is only a partially true description. We are much more than any other animal on earth.
What were Adam and Eve? As human as we are now at the very least.
What did they look like? I really have no clue.
We may be able to run for a sustained period longer than most animals, but we can not "out run" every animal. Early humans were most certainly persistence hunters, but that does not mean that they could out run a crocodile, lion or other top predator if it was chasing them.
So, as you state Adam and Eve were human, presumably Cain, Abel and Seth were also human. Cain killed Abel, so we're left with Adam, Cain, Seth and Eve. Sooo, fast forward 6000 years ( not my number, presumably yours ), where did the other 7 billion of us come from if we are all descendants of Adam, Cain, Seth and Eve? Must have been some serious incest going on there for a few generations...
"
There is a huge gap in intellect and spirit from human down to the next critter
" is there? Prove it. And what is the "next critter"?
Dr. Hugh Ross goes with 8-80,000 years as the origin of man. The 6,000 number is the geneologies added together of certain figures. As for the critters, we rule over all of them, bar none. "Outrun" was just one example of how we can run them down eventually. Being attacked by a lightning quick snake or a cheetah is a different matter, of course. As far as intellect, we are very obviously ahead of all other animals. Feel free to name one that exceeds our intellectual capacity?
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 11:10
Post #46 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Freelancer]
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Freelancer wrote:
Why does the maker of heaven and earth need you to defend him every time some one takes a jab? I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself. At some point, it seems to be less about you glorifying god and more about your human desire to be right. Why not just let it go? Has anyone's decision on faith really been influenced by the endless threads on slowtwitch? Can't we just get back to talking about Lance?
He doesn't need me. It's just good to point out faulty reasoning and lack of knowledge.
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 11:36
Post #47 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [klehner]
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klehner wrote:
. And we do have Eve's DNA, all of us, and it points to a woman about 200,000 years ago.
We can't outrun pronghorns over any distance, so there goes that conceit.
Try 7,000 years ago. Where did you get 200,000?:
http://www.livescience.com/...ldest-human-dna.html
klehner
Jul 4, 12 12:03
Post #48 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Freelancer]
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Freelancer wrote:
Has anyone's decision on faith really been influenced by the endless threads on slowtwitch?
Yes. Look for TripleThreat and evolution.
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Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy
morey000
Jul 4, 12 12:15
Post #49 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [Gurudriver10]
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oh, wait. I haven't been reading this thread. Is GuruDriver on here supporting the 'young earth creation' theory?
Oh goodie. Lemme' get my popcorn.
But I've got a question for GD. What would it take? What kind of evidence would you need in order to believe in old-earth evolution?
I'm an atheist. If you were to ask me the same question about what it would take for me to believe in an invisible supernatural deity- I could answer. I'd want to see some real acts of god. A big face appearing in the sky that we all saw, telling us what his rules and laws were and ramifications if we didn't follow them. (if that's what he wanted). Some major supernatural events before our eyes- that could only be done by a highly advanced being. Some real proof that prayer actually works miracles, and that evil is punished. And I want some answers about all the death, destruction and suffering going on in this world. Horrible diseases, natural disasters, genetic disorders, etc- that often hit some really nice people. I want some clear expectations, rather than some 2000 year old book that everyone has a different interpretation of because it's not clear. Tell us how your really feel about abortion, gay marriage and if we're all supposed to chip in so everyone can have basic healthcare? And how about giving us a hint about how to create a cheap clean source of energy so that we wouldn't have to destroy our ecosystem just to cook dinner and drive to work. Would that really be asking too much of a supernatural deity? anyway- that's what I would want in order to change my mind. I'm open.
what is it that you would need so you can see what we see?
Gurudriver10
Jul 4, 12 12:44
Post #50 of 445
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Re: God particle found? [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
Some major supernatural events before our eyes- that could only be done by a highly advanced being. Some real proof that prayer actually works miracles, and that evil is punished. And I want some answers about all the death, destruction and suffering going on in this world.
Exact time frames are not really given to Moses. Why would you think I have them? The time clocks all over the universe can be used and are there for us. The question of evil and bad things happening to "good" people have been covered here quite well by theists. Not so well by atheists! God is clear to those who wish to follow Him. Evil is punished; we all die eventually. Luckily, God provided His Son, Jesus, as a way out of that eternal punishment.
A 2,000 year old book can't give insight? I would think a 2,000 year old book (let's round up to 3500 years for OT, okay?) would give pretty good angles on ancient events? We should throw out all ancient stories and guidance?
Did God just leave us here with nothing? No, he has a book called the Bible, a people He called to Himself known as Jews, and He came down in human form as Jesus to tell us what's what. I think that's a lot. You should check it out sometime. If you want "some major supernatural event" before your eyes, look no further than the 'verse itself, life in general, and dna in particular.
If you want "clear expectations" as you said, they can be found easily.
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