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Firearm Purchase Questions

 

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patf

Jul 29, 12 14:41

Post #1 of 41 (1420 views)
Firearm Purchase Questions Quote | Reply

Feel free to answer any of these newbie questions. I did shoot guns as a kid on the farm, but you can pretty much count me as a newbie.

I plan to start getting some guns in the near future and it seems like a lot of you have experience which is probably as good as posting in a gun forum.

10 22 LR
I'm not interested in any hand guns for now. Maybe later, but I am thinking of intially getting a ruger 10 22 for target practice and perhaps some hunting later. I am looking to retire in the country in about 10 years. Question, which style 10 22 would you get for target practice and small game hunting (rabbit, squirrel)?

Shotgun
I'm thinking my second purchase might be a 12 ga shotgun. I know there are lot of different types, different barrels, and chokes. I am leaning toward the Remington 870 Wingmaster. What barrel / choke would you get to shoot trap/skeet? I know preferred is an over/under double barrel, but have seen people shooting these with a pump action. Would you use this same barrel /choke for any hunting? I was thinking a home defense barrel might be useful, but that would come latter, or maybe i would buy a second shotgun.

Any thoughts on the 870 or other multi pupose shot guns, which barrels/chokes?

Third, I was thinking about a .223, but not an AR15. Perhaps a bolt action or lever action. Something that would use the same ammo as AR15, but be cheaper and better for hunting. A lever action would be about as acurate as a straight bolt action from what i have been reading, but could shoot multiple rounds faster. And I think they would accept a larger capacity magazine. Any thoughts/recommendations for a specific gun? Is there much difference in maintenance on a lever vs bolt action?

My brother and I were talking and he doesn't have any semi autos anymore. He sold his and gotten a couple lever actions, though not .223. I would think if they outlaw semiautos, lever actions would still be OK. I'm not sure if he that is what he is thinking, but he does live in Illinois with its stricter laws.

Firearm Safety classes
What do you think of the NRA classes. It seems most of the other nearby training is pistols only. NRA appears to offer (though not sure how often) a beginner firearm class, a rifle class, and a shotgun class, and several pistol classes.

My wife is somewhat freaked about getting firearms, as she has never had any, or shot any, but she has agreed to take the classes with me.

Gun cabinet
I am looking at this http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...3993.4414427.4414433
Perhaps later I would get a better fire safe, and use this for ammo. Any thoughts on this cabinet?

Thanks if you have read this far.


rick_pcfl

Jul 29, 12 15:06

Post #2 of 41 (1395 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The 10/22 is a great rifle for target shooting and small game. A plain version with wood stock will last a very long time if you don't abuse it

I believe you should be able to get an 870 with interchangeable chokes. You use the same barrel but swap out the chokes.

The .223 may be too small for hunting, it depends on what you want to hunt. It really isn't a good hunting caliber unless you want to shoot varmints. What are you wanting to hunt?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com


Hokiebird

Jul 29, 12 15:44

Post #3 of 41 (1382 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Second on the Ruger 10/22. It's a nice little rifle, shoots very straight out of the box, and ammo is cheap. I use it for keeping varmints down, and just going outside in evenings and plinking.

Shotguns. Rem 870 is fine, but I like the Mossberg 500 better just because of the better (in my opinion) safety design. I am left handed and the cross bolt safety on the Remington's is awkward for me. With either model, barrels, stocks, etc are very customizable. I would get 2 shotguns, one for general use, and then customize one for home defense.


patf

Jul 29, 12 16:03

Post #4 of 41 (1374 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [rick_pcfl] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

rick_pcfl wrote:
The .223 may be too small for hunting, it depends on what you want to hunt. It really isn't a good hunting caliber unless you want to shoot varmints. What are you wanting to hunt?
Rick,

Thanks for replying.

I did not have anything in particular in mind for the .223, just the .223 was a common caliber and if i wanted to get an AR15 later it would be the same ammo. I read it was a varmit size rife which i take to be things like fox, ground hogs, I plan to get something like a .308 for larger game later. But really, around here we are limited to slug for deer so I would need a rifled slug barrel for a shotgun? Or i think i saw some slugs are plastic coated for normal shotgun barrels? There is hunting class that i plan to take so i will learn what the exact laws are.


patf

Jul 29, 12 16:22

Post #5 of 41 (1361 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [Hokiebird] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hokiebird wrote:
Shotguns. Rem 870 is fine, but I like the Mossberg 500 better just because of the better (in my opinion) safety design. I am left handed and the cross bolt safety on the Remington's is awkward for me. With either model, barrels, stocks, etc are very customizable. I would get 2 shotguns, one for general use, and then customize one for home defense.
Thanks Hokiebird,

I have heard alot about the Mossberg 500 so I'll have to look into that one too. And looking a 2nd barrel prices, it looks like getting a second shot gun is a better idea for home security. Probably not that much more to buy a second shotgun vs jus a barrel/choke.


riotgear

Jul 29, 12 16:23

Post #6 of 41 (1360 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

10 22 takedown. I think this is the best variant of the 10 22 out there for practical purposes since you can break it down and stow it more easily.

Remington 870 is about as solid a pump action as you can get.

I prefer the AR myself so I don't have any other thoughts on other 223's.


patf

Jul 29, 12 16:25

Post #7 of 41 (1360 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I just thought of another questions. I wear hard contacts and because reading is getting harder (over 50) they adjusted the left for reading and the right for far distance. Surprising this works quite well and the mind figures it out depending if i am looking close or far. Does that affect sighting? My glasses are not set up that way.


MOP_Mike

Jul 29, 12 16:30

Post #8 of 41 (1356 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

patf wrote:
Feel free to answer any of these newbie questions. I did shoot guns as a kid on the farm, but you can pretty much count me as a newbie.

I plan to start getting some guns in the near future and it seems like a lot of you have experience which is probably as good as posting in a gun forum.

10 22 LR
I'm not interested in any hand guns for now. Maybe later, but I am thinking of intially getting a ruger 10 22 for target practice and perhaps some hunting later. I am looking to retire in the country in about 10 years. Question, which style 10 22 would you get for target practice and small game hunting (rabbit, squirrel)?

10/22 is a great first gun. Accurate, reliable, ammo is cheap, virtually no recoil. Good for hunting varmints and tiny game to 100 yds or so.

Shotgun
I'm thinking my second purchase might be a 12 ga shotgun. I know there are lot of different types, different barrels, and chokes. I am leaning toward the Remington 870 Wingmaster. What barrel / choke would you get to shoot trap/skeet? I know preferred is an over/under double barrel, but have seen people shooting these with a pump action. Would you use this same barrel /choke for any hunting? I was thinking a home defense barrel might be useful, but that would come latter, or maybe i would buy a second shotgun.

Any thoughts on the 870 or other multi pupose shot guns, which barrels/chokes?

I'm partial to Winchesters over Remington shotguns, but both are fine. I also like pumps...just because...well...I just like them. Different barrels and chokes can be bought after the fact. They pretty much just screw on.

Third, I was thinking about a .223, but not an AR15. Perhaps a bolt action or lever action. Something that would use the same ammo as AR15, but be cheaper and better for hunting. A lever action would be about as acurate as a straight bolt action from what i have been reading, but could shoot multiple rounds faster. And I think they would accept a larger capacity magazine. Any thoughts/recommendations for a specific gun? Is there much difference in maintenance on a lever vs bolt action?

You can't get .223 lever guns...at least not with a tubular magazine as the pointy bullets can theoretically start a chain-reaction detonation in the magazine when the gun recoils. That said, somebody (Browning?) might make a non-tubular lever gun in .223. Hornady also makes their "Leverevolution" ammo with pointy-but-soft tips that allow better ballistics performance than traditional lever ammo, but doesn't make it in .223. A .223 bolt action is a fine gun for varmints and long-range target practice, but won't really allow you to hunt much larger animals than your .22LR 10-22.

My brother and I were talking and he doesn't have any semi autos anymore. He sold his and gotten a couple lever actions, though not .223. I would think if they outlaw semiautos, lever actions would still be OK. I'm not sure if he that is what he is thinking, but he does live in Illinois with its stricter laws.

Firearm Safety classes
What do you think of the NRA classes. It seems most of the other nearby training is pistols only. NRA appears to offer (though not sure how often) a beginner firearm class, a rifle class, and a shotgun class, and several pistol classes.

My wife is somewhat freaked about getting firearms, as she has never had any, or shot any, but she has agreed to take the classes with me.

Gun cabinet
I am looking at this http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...3993.4414427.4414433
Perhaps later I would get a better fire safe, and use this for ammo. Any thoughts on this cabinet?

Thanks if you have read this far.


"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.


patf

Jul 29, 12 16:39

Post #9 of 41 (1349 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [riotgear] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

riotgear wrote:
10 22 takedown. I think this is the best variant of the 10 22 out there for practical purposes since you can break it down and stow it more easily.

Remington 870 is about as solid a pump action as you can get.

I prefer the AR myself so I don't have any other thoughts on other 223's.

Thanks Riotgear. I think the AR15's I've seen are more than i want to spend this year. I might think of an AR15 later. Since this is all new to my wife, i am hoping to get her plinking with the 22 and shooting some target /skeet. I am pretty sure the AR15 would freak her out.


vitus979

Jul 29, 12 16:45

Post #10 of 41 (1340 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

You can't go wrong with a 10/22. For general use/plinking/hunting/informal target shooting, I'd just by the least expensive one at your local dealer. Mine has a synthetic stock, and came with a scope mount- but I've always just used the iron sights, which are pretty good.

As far as the .223 is concerned, I think it has pretty limited use as a hunting round. About the only type of hunting I think it's suitable for is coyote hunting, if you're into that. It's too small for deer and overkill for most anything smaller, like rabbit. If you still want one, though, and don't want the AR, a less expensive alternative is Ruger's Mini-14.







"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."


rick_pcfl

Jul 29, 12 16:55

Post #11 of 41 (1326 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [vitus979] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The mini-14 is a great suggestion for a 223. I would say it is probably cheaper, more accurate and more reliable than the AR. Great suggestion.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com


TheForge

Jul 29, 12 16:55

Post #12 of 41 (1325 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Lever actions do not come in .223. Lever action ammo can only be round nosed since pointed ammo would act as a firing pin in the mag tube. 30-30 is most common. But you can find them in common pistol calibers like .357. I have a mossberg 500 pump. Excellent quality at half the remmy price. The 10/22 comes in a stainless model. Get that. With mine I can hit 1.5 inch targets at 50 yards all day. All are easy to maintain.


patf

Jul 29, 12 17:19

Post #13 of 41 (1313 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [MOP_Mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

MOP_Mike wrote:
You can't get .223 lever guns...at least not with a tubular magazine as the pointy bullets can theoretically start a chain-reaction detonation in the magazine when the gun recoils. That said, somebody (Browning?) might make a non-tubular lever gun in .223. Hornady also makes their "Leverevolution" ammo with pointy-but-soft tips that allow better ballistics performance than traditional lever ammo, but doesn't make it in .223. A .223 bolt action is a fine gun for varmints and long-range target practice, but won't really allow you to hunt much larger animals than your .22LR 10-22.

Thanks Mike. I had done a search on lever action .223 and thought I had some hits, but i see Browing is the only one making one and with a 4 round magazine. So that would not much sense. So i might skip this caliber for now since it is a limited hunting rifle. Maybe I will get a larger caliber bolt action for hunting/long range shooting practice.


Hubblesmith

Jul 29, 12 17:27

Post #14 of 41 (1303 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [TheForge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Winchester model 88 uses a box magazine but doesn't come in a 223 variant. You can get 243 though.


iO4

Jul 29, 12 17:28

Post #15 of 41 (1300 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] (Deleted by jO4) [In reply to]

 


patf

Jul 29, 12 17:37

Post #16 of 41 (1293 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [vitus979] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

vitus979 wrote:
You can't go wrong with a 10/22. For general use/plinking/hunting/informal target shooting, I'd just by the least expensive one at your local dealer. Mine has a synthetic stock, and came with a scope mount- but I've always just used the iron sights, which are pretty good.

As far as the .223 is concerned, I think it has pretty limited use as a hunting round. About the only type of hunting I think it's suitable for is coyote hunting, if you're into that. It's too small for deer and overkill for most anything smaller, like rabbit. If you still want one, though, and don't want the AR, a less expensive alternative is Ruger's Mini-14.

Thanks Vitus.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the .223 now. The Ruger mini 14 is interesting. I see a 5 or 20 round version. Do you know if that is just a difference in what magazine they ship with, or is the 5 round guns limited to 5 round magazines? But overall for hunting it does not sound like that useful of a caliber.

I've wonder if i shouldn't look at something more powerful since .223 is limited for hunting. I was reading about .308 being a popular round, but there is also 30/30 and 30/06. And i was reading about surplus russian mosin-Nagent 7.62x54r being a cheap alternative for larger game. Article was saying you could get the gun and 2000 round of ammo for $500.


patf

Jul 29, 12 17:45

Post #17 of 41 (1284 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [TheForge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

TheForge wrote:
Lever actions do not come in .223. Lever action ammo can only be round nosed since pointed ammo would act as a firing pin in the mag tube. 30-30 is most common. But you can find them in common pistol calibers like .357. I have a mossberg 500 pump. Excellent quality at half the remmy price. The 10/22 comes in a stainless model. Get that. With mine I can hit 1.5 inch targets at 50 yards all day. All are easy to maintain.

Thanks for commenting. Mike caught my mistake on lever action. I'll have to figure out what the 2 of you are talking about. Is it because the cartrige tapers in on some rounds, or is it the actual bullet is pointed vs something like a 22?

As for the stainless,I know those are quite a bit more. Are they worth it because they don't rust vs a blued barrel?


TheForge

Jul 29, 12 18:03

Post #18 of 41 (1265 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yes. Lever actions are tube fed magazines like a shotgun. That is the tube under the barrel so bullets are aligned tip to back. Recoil can cause enough sudden movement for the tip of one bullet in the magazine to pierce the primer in the back of another bullet. A box magazine is usually an internal but permenant magazine that you top feed. A common feature in bolt action rifles. A detachable is like the ones in an AR-15.


rick_pcfl

Jul 29, 12 18:15

Post #19 of 41 (1258 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If you keep the metal wiped down and dry you shouldn't need stainless. I have rifles that I have had for 20 years and they have no rust because I wipe them down and keep them oiled.

You will always be able to find a wide range of .308 rounds. You can kill just about any sized game in North America with it; except for bear. The 30-30 is a popular round but has a short range, I would not want it as a primary rifle.
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Rick Smith - Founder of Bus Bulletin
Parent notification software designed for pupil transportation ~ Providing information while it still matters.
http://www.BusBulletin.com


CruseVegas

Jul 29, 12 18:24

Post #20 of 41 (1254 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here is a link to some barrels for the Remington 870 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/...emington_870_Barrels

If I were going to get one for general hunting and such I'd probably get the 28" barrel with the modified choke.

Remington also makes a lefty version of this as well.

I think the 10 / 22 is a great choice for a 22 rifle. Plenty of accessories and magazine choices, reliable and a lot of variations at different price points. I'm fond of wood stocks, I would probably look at getting a scope as well.
************************

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012


patf

Jul 29, 12 18:44

Post #21 of 41 (1237 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [TheForge] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

TheForge wrote:
Yes. Lever actions are tube fed magazines like a shotgun. That is the tube under the barrel so bullets are aligned tip to back. Recoil can cause enough sudden movement for the tip of one bullet in the magazine to pierce the primer in the back of another bullet. A box magazine is usually an internal but permenant magazine that you top feed. A common feature in bolt action rifles. A detachable is like the ones in an AR-15.

Thanks i did not know that is how lever actions worked. I remember some 22's were fed that way at the county fair shooting gallery when i was a kid. They had gallery rounds and were tube fed. But, that was 40 some years ago so I don't remember if they were lever action.


vitus979

Jul 29, 12 19:29

Post #22 of 41 (1210 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [patf] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The difference is simply what magazine you use- Mini-14 will take 5, 10, 20, 30 round magazines.

For a general purpose hunting round, I think I'd probably go with a .308 or .30-06. The Mosin-Nagant can certainly be affordable, but I think you'll pay for it in terms of overall quality, reliability, and accuracy. Particularly with the cheaper surplus ammo. Good choice if you're really forced to go bottom-dollar, but if you can afford to, I think you'd be better served by going with a modern rifle from one of the major manufacturers. (I suggest checking into Savage's offerings- very cost-effective, quality firearms.)







"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."


MOP_Mike

Jul 29, 12 20:35

Post #23 of 41 (1185 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [rick_pcfl] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

rick_pcfl wrote:
If you keep the metal wiped down and dry you shouldn't need stainless. I have rifles that I have had for 20 years and they have no rust because I wipe them down and keep them oiled.

You will always be able to find a wide range of .308 rounds. You can kill just about any sized game in North America with it; except for bear. The 30-30 is a popular round but has a short range, I would not want it as a primary rifle.

You will always be able to find a wide range of .308 rounds. You can kill just about any sized game in North America with it; except for bear. The 30-30 is a popular round but has a short range, I would not want it as a primary rifle.


I second the .308 recommendation as a general hunting round. It's marginal (depending on which "expert" you ask) for elk-size game, but is very accurate, a wide selection of ammo is available everywhere, and has manageable recoil. If you like lever guns, the browning BLR in .308 is really nice. (But, if you like *traditional* lever guns, I'd go with a Marlin or Winchester in 30-30.)

Don't get seduced by high-capacity magazines. For hunting, 4 rounds is plenty. At the range, your ammo budget will go a lot further, and your skills will improve faster, if you avoid rapid fire.


"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.

(This post was edited by MOP_Mike on Jul 29, 12 20:59)


AnthonyS

Jul 29, 12 21:10

Post #24 of 41 (1163 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [MOP_Mike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

10-22, Rem 870 or Mossberg 500, and Rem 700 in .308 or 30-06. Those are your 3 go to rifles. I'd also add a 9mm sidearm to the mix. You may not want one now, but carrying a sidearm while hunting as a backup is never a bad thing, especially if you are boar hunting etc. I personally prefer a .45 sidearm, but 9mm is inexpensive and very common and not too shabby.
--------------------------------------------------------

You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.


TheForge

Jul 30, 12 7:14

Post #25 of 41 (1084 views)
Re: Firearm Purchase Questions [rick_pcfl] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Interestingly the 30-30 is on par with the 7.62x39 (AK-47) round in terms of terminal ballistics. Yet I hear people discount a 30-30 as an effective round then advocate an AK. I'm inclined to agree with you that the 30-30 is effective close range, but I have also argued the AK is a close range weapon and not a "rifle" in the traditional sense.

For me, the .308 is the best al around rifle cartridge. It can be fired from more compact weapons (rifles with 16-18 inch barrels) and is deadly out to 800 yard in a 24 inch barrel with a well trained shooter. Few cartridges readily and economically available give you that versatility. The 5.56/.223 is a good all around cartidge within 300, 500 yards yard if you are an exceptional shooter, but even then the punch is significantly less. To get the same effectiveness beyond, you have to use heavier ammo which requires a different barrel to get the same accuracy.

.223 will take out a deer, but because trauma caused by a .223 causes a dear to bleed out over a 30 second - 3 minute window depending on placement. Many states forbid it for hunting due to humane reasons. Personally I never understood how states that forbid .223 for deer hunting could allow bow hunting.

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