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Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline
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https://www.bloomberg.com/...men-from-labor-force


Dude from Princeton studies labour force participation rate over this century. He concludes that yes, most of the low rate is that boomers are old and kids are able to choose school over jobs, but 20% of men out of the labour force are there due to drug abuse. We're at 63% participation rate right now.


If you want to drill down deep, 35-44 year olds. In 2000, 85% participation rate. 2017? 82.5% ish.
Men, 16+. 2000: 75%. 2017: 69%
I'd like to compare men, 25-54, but the BLS is hard to work with.


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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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scorpio516 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/...men-from-labor-force


Dude from Princeton studies labour force participation rate over this century. He concludes that yes, most of the low rate is that boomers are old and kids are able to choose school over jobs, but 20% of men out of the labour force are there due to drug abuse. We're at 63% participation rate right now.


If you want to drill down deep, 35-44 year olds. In 2000, 85% participation rate. 2017? 82.5% ish.
Men, 16+. 2000: 75%. 2017: 69%
I'd like to compare men, 25-54, but the BLS is hard to work with.


It's almost enough to ask what it is it about modern U.S. society that drives people to drugs?
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
scorpio516 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/...men-from-labor-force


Dude from Princeton studies labour force participation rate over this century. He concludes that yes, most of the low rate is that boomers are old and kids are able to choose school over jobs, but 20% of men out of the labour force are there due to drug abuse. We're at 63% participation rate right now.


If you want to drill down deep, 35-44 year olds. In 2000, 85% participation rate. 2017? 82.5% ish.
Men, 16+. 2000: 75%. 2017: 69%
I'd like to compare men, 25-54, but the BLS is hard to work with.



It's almost enough to ask what it is it about modern U.S. society that drives people to drugs?

Don't have any stats but from what I've heard a lot of the opioid abuse starts with people on disability.


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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:

Don't have any stats but from what I've heard a lot of the opioid abuse starts with people on disability.

But that's a complex correlation. Sometimes disability is a method of getting drugs.

This NPR piece on the "disability industrial complex" is pretty sobering.

There was another NPR piece that I can't find right away where they interviewed a Dr. who apologetically described giving disability status to able-bodied people with the rationale that they weren't going to be able to find a job in the recession. The disability he always made up for them was chronic back pain. Wanted to punch him in the face.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
schroeder wrote:


Don't have any stats but from what I've heard a lot of the opioid abuse starts with people on disability.


But that's a complex correlation. Sometimes disability is a method of getting drugs.

This NPR piece on the "disability industrial complex" is pretty sobering.

There was another NPR piece that I can't find right away where they interviewed a Dr. who apologetically described giving disability status to able-bodied people with the rationale that they weren't going to be able to find a job in the recession. The disability he always made up for them was chronic back pain. Wanted to punch him in the face.

Maybe you are thinking of the This American Life episode that covered the increase in disability claims. There was a doctor that had no problem putting anyone on disability. Especially with back pain -- there's no way of telling how bad a person's back hurts.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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Who are these people on disability, and where the hell do they live? I probably know exactly one person on disability, and probably a couple dozen older workers who could easily qualify, but choose to work.

Okay, been looking around at maps, it seems that opioid deaths and disability payment levels track VERY closely together, and are far lower in high cost areas.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Who are these people on disability, and where the hell do they live? I probably know exactly one person on disability, and probably a couple dozen older workers who could easily qualify, but choose to work.

Okay, been looking around at maps, it seems that opioid deaths and disability payment levels track VERY closely together, and are far lower in high cost areas.

Doesn't every map on anything bad look about like this?




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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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Im on percocet now. Have been for the last week. Started when i fracrured my hand, then a few days later diagnosed with kidney stones.

I only take 1/2 of a pill wich is 1/4 of the dose i can take. Im lucky that i dont have an addictive personality and have never had a problem stopping taking them in the past, but i can see why someone could easily get hooked! They definitely erase pain and have a slight euphoric effect. I hate the constipation that comes with it, that alone is enough to keep me from taking them any more than i need to.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Who are these people on disability, and where the hell do they live? I probably know exactly one person on disability, and probably a couple dozen older workers who could easily qualify, but choose to work.

Okay, been looking around at maps, it seems that opioid deaths and disability payment levels track VERY closely together, and are far lower in high cost areas.

I've known 2 people on disability: my neighbor in California, she was messed up pretty bad. My daughter's friend's mom in Massachusetts, much less messed up. Both were struggling to make ends meet. Then 2nd also has a fairly autistic son. Both their spouses worked too.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Im on percocet now. Have been for the last week. Started when i fracrured my hand, then a few days later diagnosed with kidney stones.

I only take 1/2 of a pill wich is 1/4 of the dose i can take. Im lucky that i dont have an addictive personality and have never had a problem stopping taking them in the past, but i can see why someone could easily get hooked! They definitely erase pain and have a slight euphoric effect. I hate the constipation that comes with it, that alone is enough to keep me from taking them any more than i need to.

I guess I'm even luckier. After knee surgery, I got no pain relief up to the max dose allowed - only nausea enough to have me throwing up or wanting to for the next 24 hours (probably one of my most hated things). I flushed the rest.
Last edited by: spudone: Sep 8, 17 10:02
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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its been my experience that there seems to be a significant number of military veterans who are on disability
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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And what experience is that?
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
Who are these people on disability, and where the hell do they live? I probably know exactly one person on disability, and probably a couple dozen older workers who could easily qualify, but choose to work.

Okay, been looking around at maps, it seems that opioid deaths and disability payment levels track VERY closely together, and are far lower in high cost areas.


Doesn't every map on anything bad look about like this?




I probably show a dozen or more of these sorts of maps in various lectures and yes pretty much all of them look that way. IIRC, one that doesn't is lung cancer, where there are some states in the mountain west that have high rates.

Just read a stat that between 1999 and 2014 opioid prescriptions increased 4-fold!
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [dvfmfidc] [ In reply to ]
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dvfmfidc wrote:
And what experience is that?

friend and family . growing up near a army base, seeing the people's cars parked in handicap parking with retired veteran stickers .

i'm not being critical as there are a goodl number of discharged veterans with legitimate disabilities
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Im on percocet now. Have been for the last week. Started when i fracrured my hand, then a few days later diagnosed with kidney stones.

I only take 1/2 of a pill wich is 1/4 of the dose i can take. Im lucky that i dont have an addictive personality and have never had a problem stopping taking them in the past, but i can see why someone could easily get hooked! They definitely erase pain and have a slight euphoric effect. I hate the constipation that comes with it, that alone is enough to keep me from taking them any more than i need to.

I do have an "addictive personality" and can take fairly ;large quantities of pain killers over a fairly significant amount of time...

...and then just stop without much issue.

Disclaimer: the above statements are parody and meant for entertainment purposes only. No sane person would actually hold such views.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
schroeder wrote:

Don't have any stats but from what I've heard a lot of the opioid abuse starts with people on disability.

But that's a complex correlation. Sometimes disability is a method of getting drugs.

This NPR piece on the "disability industrial complex" is pretty sobering.

There was another NPR piece that I can't find right away where they interviewed a Dr. who apologetically described giving disability status to able-bodied people with the rationale that they weren't going to be able to find a job in the recession. The disability he always made up for them was chronic back pain. Wanted to punch him in the face.

May back has been in pain for almost 30 years. I never thought to go on disability for it.

Disclaimer: the above statements are parody and meant for entertainment purposes only. No sane person would actually hold such views.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Who are these people on disability, and where the hell do they live? I probably know exactly one person on disability, and probably a couple dozen older workers who could easily qualify, but choose to work

Are you kidding me? People around here are experts on getting on disability benefits. And the lawyers promote it on TV. Seriously, it's a time honored tradition for many families. As the map shows it became a scam in the Appalachian communities many years ago.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Are you kidding me? People around here are experts on getting on disability benefits. And the lawyers promote it on TV.


Where is "here"? My "here" is the Bay Area, and disability simply won't cut it for surviving here (for most people).
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
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Are you kidding me? People around here are experts on getting on disability benefits. And the lawyers promote it on TV.


Where is "here"? My "here" is the Bay Area, and disability simply won't cut it for surviving here (for most people).
Here can be anywhere anymore. Disability with a section8 voucher and an EBT card is good anywhere including the Bay Area.


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
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Are you kidding me? People around here are experts on getting on disability benefits. And the lawyers promote it on TV.



Where is "here"? My "here" is the Bay Area, and disability simply won't cut it for surviving here (for most people).

Yes, for most people.

Look at the map. All of those colored red. I'm in the middle, the one colored pink. Tennessee. Millions of people who can live off the government dole having learned how to do so beginning with government programs targeted to help the poor in Appalachia and rural south. Like I mentioned, it's a family tradition to live that way.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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After surgery to repair a ruptured tendon in my pinky, they gave me percoset. I took one pill as far apart as I could manage the pain. But I will see I don't see the appeal. The pain reduction was nice, but the loopy feeling was repulsive.

Interesting note- the pinky surgery was in CO. I had far more invasive wrist surgery ( cross section taken out, titanium plate screwed in, tendons re positioned) in FL, and the guy pretty much refused to prescribe anything more than Tylenol with Codeine. I wanted to punch that ortho next time I saw him. My mom loaned me some stuff to get through the first few days. I am guessing they were scaling back on the prescriptions due to the epidemic of abuse. But I just wanted something that actually DOES have some sort of affect. Pretty sure you could load me up with codeine and it would do absolutely nothing for me. Body chemistry or something. My sister is the same way.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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Roger that.
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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I don't understand why they don't investigate the Drs who write the prescriptions. I would love to see a comparison of how many each writes
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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triguy98 wrote:
After surgery to repair a ruptured tendon in my pinky, they gave me percoset. I took one pill as far apart as I could manage the pain. But I will see I don't see the appeal. The pain reduction was nice, but the loopy feeling was repulsive.

Interesting note- the pinky surgery was in CO. I had far more invasive wrist surgery ( cross section taken out, titanium plate screwed in, tendons re positioned) in FL, and the guy pretty much refused to prescribe anything more than Tylenol with Codeine. I wanted to punch that ortho next time I saw him. My mom loaned me some stuff to get through the first few days. I am guessing they were scaling back on the prescriptions due to the epidemic of abuse. But I just wanted something that actually DOES have some sort of affect. Pretty sure you could load me up with codeine and it would do absolutely nothing for me. Body chemistry or something. My sister is the same way.

This was 18 years ago, but I had a pin driven into my ring finger on my dominant hand (in between my last two semesters of Architecture school back when you had to hand draft). I also only got super tylenol. A couple weeks earlier, I had kidney stone surgery. I also only got Tylenol. Coulda used something better then though...
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Re: Drugs - specifically opioids - cause 20% of the labour market decline [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
scorpio516 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/...men-from-labor-force


Dude from Princeton studies labour force participation rate over this century. He concludes that yes, most of the low rate is that boomers are old and kids are able to choose school over jobs, but 20% of men out of the labour force are there due to drug abuse. We're at 63% participation rate right now.


If you want to drill down deep, 35-44 year olds. In 2000, 85% participation rate. 2017? 82.5% ish.
Men, 16+. 2000: 75%. 2017: 69%
I'd like to compare men, 25-54, but the BLS is hard to work with.



It's almost enough to ask what it is it about modern U.S. society that drives people to drugs?

I watched a Jordan Peterson lecture last week or so and he brought this up. I'll try and find it and post the link to the video. Anyways, he blamed it on the Western male's loss of responsibility in society. In other words, the traditional role for men has deteriorated, resulting in men turning to drugs.
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