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Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured

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justgeorge

Jul 20, 12 5:14

Post #1 of 209 (3234 views)

Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured	Quote \| Reply

Thoughts go out to everyone involved.

I'll start the LR discussion, in your reply just list a number:

1) We need gun control!
2) If someone else had been packing he would have been stopped!

No motive mentioned yet, so far they're saying it's not terrorism but they also said Ft Hood was simply workplace violence.

Should be an active day here in the LR.

triguy98

Jul 20, 12 5:21

Post #2 of 209 (3219 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

3) Someone hadn't wigged out and actually shot him.
Colorado's carry laws look fairly generous. You can have one in your car without a carry permit.
http://crime.about.com/...ate/p/gunlaws_co.htm

justgeorge

Jul 20, 12 5:23

Post #3 of 209 (3214 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [triguy98] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

With descriptions of "20 shots fired" but 50 injured, probably many of the injured were from panic getting out of the theatre, which was most likely packed.

mck414

Jul 20, 12 5:35

Post #4 of 209 (3197 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The guy knew no one would shoot back. When confronted with the real possibility of one's own death most people won't do anything so stupid. Plus the guy was wearing a bullet proof vest, he didn't want to die.

chicken shit mother fucker simply fired upon soft target. a true coward.
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beanmj

Jul 20, 12 5:53

Post #5 of 209 (3159 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The jackass dropped a tear gas/smoke bomb (unsure which) before he started shooting.

I hate going to that theater, but holy shit. It's hard to put feelings about it in to words right now.

klehner

Jul 20, 12 6:03

Post #6 of 209 (3132 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [mck414] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

mck414 wrote:

Isn't there a contradiction in your statements?
----------------------------------
Of course, with your ears stuffed with outrage cotton balls, all you heard was, rahrahra, govt comes to get your guns, rhahrahrah, stamp out your FREEEEEDOM! - slowguy

big kahuna

Jul 20, 12 6:07

Post #7 of 209 (3121 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [mck414] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

mck414 wrote:

First, this is a real tragedy. To be in what you think is a safe haven, surrounded by others also thinking that way, and then to have flee for your life in the face of gunfire could scar some of these people for life. People that do these sorts of things, if captured, need to suffer the ultimate consequences for their actions. No wasting time with psychoanalysis or that other stupidity. Just put these folks down like the rabid animals they are. And as quickly as possible.

Second, Agree completely with what you just said, Combat. The story's still way in flux, and all the details haven't yet come to light but available reports bear out what you're saying so far. Pre-planned to a high degree, including the wearing of a gas mask and body armor. He entered -- taking advantage of a fire exit door that led into the theater -- and began servicing his targets, dropping one weapon when it ran out or jammed, pulling another weapon and cycling that one. Of course, like you also say, most people tend not to want to do anything that their mind is telling them may bring them closer to harm's way.

In other words; even when they're armed, the vast majority of people, when having to take appropriate action, such as find cover and then return fire, will instead either flee in the opposite direction of the fire (and that's often a smart decision, admittedly, if there's true egress) or, basically, curl up or cower. No shame in that for the people confronting such fire. You have to practice for such things, and I don't think most people are purchasing a sidearm and then heading to a local range to receive training in performing successfully under immediate action conditions. And you also have to regularly practice doing that, on top of things.

I don't know about you, but I don't think most people in society are assuming it's so far gone that they've got to "gear up" when they head to a movie theater, just in case they end up in a firefight. You and I might, of course, but we supposedly belong to the gun crazy sub-culture out there, right? And that brings me to my last point: If we are, indeed, such a gun crazy people why weren't there more folks in that crowd packing? I don't feel like pulling out my TI84 Plus and performing a few probability studies but it would seem to me that the chances of there being a least one random person in that theater being armed (besides the shooter, that is) would be at least slightly decent if we were all so crazed about firearms as people around the world think us to be.

vibrolux

Jul 20, 12 6:11

Post #8 of 209 (3109 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I've always, at least in my own mind, supported the right to gun ownership. I'm starting to think differently. As I get older and more synical, I am starting to lose faith in people. Lots of people are just truly tools. Maybe best if we start erroring on caution and change the laws.

big kahuna

Jul 20, 12 6:37

Post #9 of 209 (3065 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [vibrolux] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

vibrolux wrote:

People bent on sending a message or in becoming "famous" (more like "infamous") in this manner will find ways to do just that. Maybe through arson or through some other sort of destructive action. The difference with firearms is they're almost "point and click" these days, at least in the minds of the people either employing them like this or in those witnessing it. I watched some interviews of a few of the folks in that theater and it was almost like they were describing viewing a video game of the third-person shooter variety. Most were amazingly calm, and maybe that was due to shock but it sure didn't seem that way. More like they'd become enured, through the process of enurement, to such outcomes. I don't think that "outlawing" guns (we all know how successful that'd be) would change that objective condition in the least, unfortunately.

manitou820

Jul 20, 12 6:38

Post #10 of 209 (3064 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [vibrolux] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I am fine with guns being legal. I'm even okay with CW permits. But do we really need AK-47's, bullet proof armor, and tear gas grenades. There needs to be a limit. Shot guns, hunting rifles (bolt action or 5 round clips), and hang guns with less than 10 round clips. How is this not reasonable?

veganerd

Jul 20, 12 6:38

Post #11 of 209 (3061 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Quote:

it would seem to me that the chances of there being a least one random person in that theater being armed

perhaps there were but they were smart enough not to shoot back.

lets look at the situation. the man threw tear or cs gas into the room and he had a gas mask on. the gas is effective and would have blinded anyone hit with it. do you think its a good idea for a blinded person to whip out a gun in a crowded theater with everyone running around and try to shoot a specific individual? perhaps in that situation we could have been sorting out who killed more, the madman or the hero.

enemy of epilepsy

tomtri

Jul 20, 12 6:39

Post #12 of 209 (3053 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Talking about this with some buddies over coffee this morning. How much of this can be attributed to young people (OK...young men) growing up surrounded by video games that involve realistic, graphic killing? My evidence is the growing popularity of paint ball, laser tag, 3 gun matches/sport (action shooting). Sure, when I was a kid I had toy army men and play guns and me and my friends would "shoot" each other - but it is SO realistic these days. This guy that did the killing in CO (and other instances similar to this) - had he already "killed people" in his mind and dropped off into some fantasy world that could only be fulfilled by taking it another step?

I'm not anti-gun nor anti paint ball/laser tag/action shooting... Just wondering what triggers someone to do this kind of thing.

FLA Jill

Jul 20, 12 6:39

Post #13 of 209 (3049 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I remember an interview with a guy who was at the Gabrielle Giffords shooting. He had his weapon and concealed carry permit, and considered himself an accurate shot.

And he talked about how he felt like all he could do at the scene was to find cover and keep his weapon drawn in case the shooter came toward him because in that kind of chaos, there was simply no way he could get a good target on the shooter without any innocents in the line of fire.

Add in the teargas and a larger crowd, and no armed civilian, no matter how level-headed is going to be able to stop the crazy guy with a head start on the shooting without a very significant risk of collateral damage to innocents.

TheForge

Jul 20, 12 6:50

Post #14 of 209 (3019 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [FLA Jill] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

We have discussed this in great detail as recently as last week. Yes, just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you will use it. In fact, as high as 90% of people carrying probably lack the internal switch to kill somebody without suffering great emotional trauma after the fact. This is even true among soldiers, hence one fo the main purposes of boot camp is not only to physically prepare you to kill, but to emotionally prepare you to kill, or at least be able to pull the trigger. There is a lot at play there that would have prevented even a trained killer from reacting.

wimsey

Jul 20, 12 7:00

Post #15 of 209 (2991 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

<<it would seem to me that the chances of there being a least one random person in that theater being armed>>

Perhaps not; from reports I've read, it appears that concealed carry is not allowed in movie theaters in Colorado, so law-abiding citizens (even if holders of concealed carry permits) would not have been carrying.

Duffy

Jul 20, 12 7:03

Post #16 of 209 (2981 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

What's the over/under on the amount of time it takes for a new law to be proposed?

____________________________________________________
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hensatc

Jul 20, 12 7:03

Post #17 of 209 (2978 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

big kahuna wrote:

You have to practice for such things, and I don't think most people are purchasing a sidearm and then heading to a local range to receive training in performing successfully under immediate action conditions. And you also have to regularly practice doing that, on top of things.

spot on... especially the bit above. responsible ownership of ANY powerful machinery (car, tractor, hydraulics etc...) including a weapon requires the owner to be proficient and comfortable in the setting that machine is to be used in... and if your purpose of buying a pistol is for CCW then that setting is under stress and surprise... unfortunately I think you are right that the prevalence of people with side arms far out strips the prevalence of people with side arms and appropriate training.

The guy in the theater sounds like he was bound and determined to make a name for him self and unless the right person with the right tool and the right training just happened to be in that room he was going to do what he did... and he deserves to pay swiftly and violently for that.

beanmj

Jul 20, 12 7:11

Post #18 of 209 (2950 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [wimsey] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

wimsey wrote:

Perhaps not; from reports I've read, it appears that concealed carry is not allowed in movie theaters in Colorado, so law-abiding citizens (even if holders of concealed carry permits) would not have been carrying.

What "reports" are those? They're wrong.

travelmama

Jul 20, 12 7:12

Post #19 of 209 (2943 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

People are sick!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLIiF15wjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o

ErnieK

Jul 20, 12 7:17

Post #20 of 209 (2931 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [hensatc] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Maybe that's the key. If they catch the shooter (in this case they did) alive or dead, don't release the name. Put em down fast and never give the chickenshit any notoriety. Total erradication of the douchebag ever being alive.

TashaSkippy

Jul 20, 12 7:18

Post #21 of 209 (2927 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [beanmj] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

beanmj wrote:

wimsey wrote:

What "reports" are those? They're wrong.

Agreed. Carry in the theater would be allowed. Good synopsis of Colorado gun laws here: http://handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

The theater may have been posted "no guns" but we all know how silly those signs are.

trail

Jul 20, 12 7:27

Post #22 of 209 (2902 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [justgeorge] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Nice work. I read the news and asked myself "how long before the LR thread turns political." You managed to just skip all the BS about asking if anyone was affected, etc, and skipped straight to the politics.

wimsey

Jul 20, 12 7:30

Post #23 of 209 (2896 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [beanmj] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Entirely possible this is not accurate info, or that I misstated - I'm on a work computer now that doesn't allow me to see some sites that would clarify. Gist as I understand it from further discussions at work (but without benefit of unrestricted Internet to do some fact-checking is that (1) CO law is fairly permissive re: concealed carry; (2) CO law does not permit local ordinances to override state law on the issue; (3) however, private businesses can in some cases prohibit concealed carry on the premises of the private business; and (4) movie theaters (perhaps including this one) have bans in place.

Xatefrogg

Jul 20, 12 7:47

Post #24 of 209 (2852 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [tomtri] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

"Talking about this with some buddies over coffee this morning. How much of this can be attributed to young people (OK...young men) growing up surrounded by video games that involve realistic, graphic killing? My evidence is the growing popularity of paint ball, laser tag, 3 gun matches/sport (action shooting). Sure, when I was a kid I had toy army men and play guns and me and my friends would "shoot" each other - but it is SO realistic these days. This guy that did the killing in CO (and other instances similar to this) - had he already "killed people" in his mind and dropped off into some fantasy world that could only be fulfilled by taking it another step?

I'm not anti-gun nor anti paint ball/laser tag/action shooting... Just wondering what triggers someone to do this kind of thing."

That argument is so old and such a cop-out. I would say that you playing with your toy army men and play guns was just as bad as the youths of today playing video games. They both enact the thoughts of killing. Before video games violence was blamed on TV, before that it was comic books, before that it was radio, before that it was playing soldier with your friends. Rather than blaming it on video games or other media how about blaming it on the guys mental state and his inherent violence and reclusive behavior. I would argue that there was no "trigger" but an accumulation of anger, hate and poor mental stability followed up with planning and plotting to carry out this sick act. Violent video games may have been an outlet for this wanker but it wasn't the reason or trigger. It is one part of a larger whole.

(This post was edited by Xatefrogg on Jul 20, 12 7:50)

big kahuna

Jul 20, 12 7:52

Post #25 of 209 (2839 views)

Re: Colorado theatre shooting - 14 dead, 50 injured [FLA Jill] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

FLA Jill wrote:

No doubt. And I'm sure I would have been looking for the nearest egress as well. Just because one carries a sidearm doesn't mean one has an obligation to stand there like some John McClain character in a "Die Hard" movie and shoot it out with whomever is firing at people. I look at my sidearm as what I call an "exigent circumstances" or even a "last resort" tool (and that's what it is; a tool) and not something that confers upon me super powers or something. Now, if I'm boxed in or I have no way of escaping or if I'm in a situation where the lives of others are also threatened and I have nowhere to go and no way to get them safely out of harm's way either, I'm going to act in extremis, as I should. But other than that, you'd most likely see a roadrunner dust trail behind me as I sought to save my own skin.

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