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Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons

 

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chainpin

Dec 21, 11 10:36

Post #76 of 108 (798 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [rrheisler] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Its an engineering nightmare because it doesn't do jack shit to advance the cost curve for these kind of vehicles.

Give unlimited dollars to a group of engineers and they can build a Volt pretty easily.

Get back to me when this vehicle can be mass produced for under $20K--free from subsidies.

Engineering isn't just about the end result and this being billed as some huge accomplishment is absolute horseshit.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



Hubblesmith

Dec 21, 11 10:41

Post #77 of 108 (795 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I give you engineering achievement:
Quote:
1898 -- The Austrian Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, at age 23, built his first car, the Lohner Electric Chaise. It was the world's first front-wheel-drive. Porsche's second car was a hybrid, using an internal combustion engine to spin a generator that provided power to electric motors located in the wheel hubs. On battery alone, the car could travel nearly 40 miles.


chainpin

Dec 21, 11 10:48

Post #78 of 108 (785 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Hubblesmith] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hubblesmith wrote:
I give you engineering achievement:
Quote:

1898 -- The Austrian Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, at age 23, built his first car, the Lohner Electric Chaise. It was the world's first front-wheel-drive. Porsche's second car was a hybrid, using an internal combustion engine to spin a generator that provided power to electric motors located in the wheel hubs. On battery alone, the car could travel nearly 40 miles.

Seriously, these guys are talking so much shit about how THIS car is such an achievement, when in reality, it was an engineering teams dream project, one funded with infinite dollars that neither pushed the cost curve lower or advanced the elctric car concept.

They threw money at the engineering problem and came up with a car that explodes into flames after a fender bender.

POS.

Again, show me a mass produced Volt for under $20K that wasn't subsidized with one dime of taxpayer money and I will bow down and kiss the ring--hell, I would even buy one.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



j p o

Dec 21, 11 10:50

Post #79 of 108 (784 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

'Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. "

So if you amortize all the engineering costs into the first couple cars it costs a lot. But only a complete and total moron would do this and not do it over the total span of the products produced (which would include not just this car but all vehicles that benefit from the advancements). Are you a complete and total moron?


JustinPB

Dec 21, 11 10:53

Post #80 of 108 (781 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [j p o] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

just shifty and dishonest.


Hubblesmith

Dec 21, 11 10:56

Post #81 of 108 (784 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [j p o] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

j p o wrote:
So if you amortize all the engineering costs into the first couple cars it costs a lot. But only a complete and total moron would do this and not do it over the total span of the products produced (which would include not just this car but all vehicles that benefit from the advancements). Are you a complete and total moron?

But that assumes two things:

1) That the car will survive and sell a large number of units to amortize the development costs over. So far it doesn't look like that will happen.

2) That it actually represents an advancement that can benefit future vehicle development. It doesn't.


JustinPB

Dec 21, 11 10:57

Post #82 of 108 (782 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Hubblesmith] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

actually it only assumes #1. #2 has no bearing on amortization of engineering costs.


j p o

Dec 21, 11 11:08

Post #83 of 108 (775 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Hubblesmith] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

and for #1 you can't do that calculation now. To do so would be assuming it won't and that no other products benefit from the research. And would be shift and dishonest, or just plain stupid.


Hubblesmith

Dec 21, 11 11:13

Post #84 of 108 (773 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [JustinPB] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here's what I wonder: The all electric and hybrid electric technologies were introduced at the very inception of automobile product birth. The market and industry then chose the all gasoline internal combustion engine. What were the factors that drove this decision, and what has changed since then that would change the equation to favor electric or hybrid?


Hubblesmith

Dec 21, 11 11:17

Post #85 of 108 (769 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [j p o] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

j p o wrote:
and for #1 you can't do that calculation now. To do so would be assuming it won't and that no other products benefit from the research. And would be shift and dishonest, or just plain stupid.

I think it has been in production and for sale long enough to get an initial reading on consumer acceptance. Granted there is margin for error that will be reduced over time, but at this point it looks very much like the Chevrolet Volt has been rejected by the mainstream consumer public. The public embraces hybrid technology, it just rejects Chevrolet in general and the Volt in particular.


chainpin

Dec 21, 11 11:21

Post #86 of 108 (760 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [j p o] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

j p o wrote:
'Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. "

So if you amortize all the engineering costs into the first couple cars it costs a lot. But only a complete and total moron would do this and not do it over the total span of the products produced (which would include not just this car but all vehicles that benefit from the advancements). Are you a complete and total moron?

Amortize those costs over 6,000 vehicles and get back to me.

Oh, and don't forget that the purchase of those vehicles was ALSO subsidized by the government too.

Hahahahahah!!!

So basically the entire existence of this "marvel" was subsidized by the govnerment.

Development cost subsidized - Check

Sales subsidized - Check

Yeah, only a complete moron would think that the goverment paying for every fucking aspect of this cars existence is indicative of SUCCESS!!!

Are you a fucking idiot and moron?


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



j p o

Dec 21, 11 11:23

Post #87 of 108 (760 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Hubblesmith] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hubblesmith wrote:
Here's what I wonder: The all electric and hybrid electric technologies were introduced at the very inception of automobile product birth. The market and industry then chose the all gasoline internal combustion engine. What were the factors that drove this decision, and what has changed since then that would change the equation to favor electric or hybrid?

My guess for one would be lack of electric infrastructure. You could transport gasoline to your house but you can't buy a can of electricity. Batteries were probably another big drawback, big, heavy and expensive.


manitou820

Dec 21, 11 12:11

Post #88 of 108 (732 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Oh no, we're all going to die!!!!

On August 22 of this year, Audi began a recall of their 2011 & 2012 R8 Spyder vehicles. It seems a fuel line can rub against a heat shield in the engine compartment and catch FIRE.
A few days earlier on August 15, Ford announced they would be recalling 2007 Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego’s because there were inadequate welds on the fuel filler pipe and gas tank which could leak and in the presence of an ignition source, catch FIRE.
Last month BMW announced they are recalling 32,000 of its 2008-2011 cars (select 5-series, 7-series, X5’s & X6’s) because of a faulty electronic circuit board that could damage the water pump of the car and lead to a FIRE.
On July 29 of this year, Daimler trucks of North America recalled certain 2010 & 2011 Saf-T-Liner C-2 school buses because “The intake air grid heater may short circuit and fail due to excessive internal temperatures. A short circuited grid heater could result in a FIRE and injury to vehicle occupants.” I wonder who might be the vehicle occupants of a school bus? Ya think school buses full of children possibly catching FIRE is a bit more newsworthy than a couple Volts catching fire weeks after NHTSA crash tests? I do!
Then there’s Honda. Last year Honda recalled 646,000 Fits because a faulty power window switch could cause a vehicle FIRE. That’s a lot of recalled cars. I swear I don’t remember seeing this in the headlines for a few weeks last year. On September 12, 2011, Ford began a recall of certain model F-150’s and F-250’s from various years between 1997 and 2003. The reason: The fuel tank straps were defective and could break. This would cause the fuel tank to possibly separate form the vehicle while it was being driven and come in contact with the ground. In other words, it can literally fall off while you’re driving down the highway. This obviously poses a FIRE hazard.
In October 2010, Chrysler recalled about 26,000 cars and pickup trucks because power steering fluid can leak onto a hot engine and cause a FIRE. In June of 2010 Toyota announced they were recalling approximately 13,000 Lexus HS 250 H after testing revealed that the car could leak fluid during a rear end collision and cause a FIRE.
Let’s not forget in March 2011 when Mazda recalled 52,000 Mazda6 sedans. I remember this one did make the news for a day, but only because of how strange the problem was. Mazda said the problem was because "a certain type of spider may weave a web in the evaporative canister vent line and this may cause a restriction of the line." Blocking the vent line can prevent air from getting into the gas tank. This results in negative air pressure inside the tank. That can lead to a crack in the gas tank and the possibility of a FIRE.

I didn’t even mention the famous Ford recall in 2009 when Ford recalled 14 million vehicles because over 550 of them caught on fire, many of which while people were driving them and in some instances even burned down some homes.


(This post was edited by manitou820 on Dec 21, 11 12:12)


Eppur si muove

Dec 21, 11 12:36

Post #89 of 108 (718 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] (Deleted by ___) [In reply to]

 


triengineer

Dec 21, 11 12:42

Post #90 of 108 (713 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Rob C in FL] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rob C in FL wrote:
"GM will recall the more than 6,000 Volts now on the road"

I wouldn't snicker if I were you. 6,000 volts is a lot of potential.

I tip my hat to you, sir!


Duffy

Dec 21, 11 12:51

Post #91 of 108 (700 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [manitou820] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

manitou820 wrote:
Oh no, we're all going to die!!!!

On August 22 of this year, Audi began a recall of their 2011 & 2012 R8 Spyder vehicles. It seems a fuel line can rub against a heat shield in the engine compartment and catch FIRE.
A few days earlier on August 15, Ford announced they would be recalling 2007 Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego’s because there were inadequate welds on the fuel filler pipe and gas tank which could leak and in the presence of an ignition source, catch FIRE.
Last month BMW announced they are recalling 32,000 of its 2008-2011 cars (select 5-series, 7-series, X5’s & X6’s) because of a faulty electronic circuit board that could damage the water pump of the car and lead to a FIRE.
On July 29 of this year, Daimler trucks of North America recalled certain 2010 & 2011 Saf-T-Liner C-2 school buses because “The intake air grid heater may short circuit and fail due to excessive internal temperatures. A short circuited grid heater could result in a FIRE and injury to vehicle occupants.” I wonder who might be the vehicle occupants of a school bus? Ya think school buses full of children possibly catching FIRE is a bit more newsworthy than a couple Volts catching fire weeks after NHTSA crash tests? I do!
Then there’s Honda. Last year Honda recalled 646,000 Fits because a faulty power window switch could cause a vehicle FIRE. That’s a lot of recalled cars. I swear I don’t remember seeing this in the headlines for a few weeks last year. On September 12, 2011, Ford began a recall of certain model F-150’s and F-250’s from various years between 1997 and 2003. The reason: The fuel tank straps were defective and could break. This would cause the fuel tank to possibly separate form the vehicle while it was being driven and come in contact with the ground. In other words, it can literally fall off while you’re driving down the highway. This obviously poses a FIRE hazard.
In October 2010, Chrysler recalled about 26,000 cars and pickup trucks because power steering fluid can leak onto a hot engine and cause a FIRE. In June of 2010 Toyota announced they were recalling approximately 13,000 Lexus HS 250 H after testing revealed that the car could leak fluid during a rear end collision and cause a FIRE.
Let’s not forget in March 2011 when Mazda recalled 52,000 Mazda6 sedans. I remember this one did make the news for a day, but only because of how strange the problem was. Mazda said the problem was because "a certain type of spider may weave a web in the evaporative canister vent line and this may cause a restriction of the line." Blocking the vent line can prevent air from getting into the gas tank. This results in negative air pressure inside the tank. That can lead to a crack in the gas tank and the possibility of a FIRE.

I didn’t even mention the famous Ford recall in 2009 when Ford recalled 14 million vehicles because over 550 of them caught on fire, many of which while people were driving them and in some instances even burned down some homes.

I had one of those VW square backs back in the day. It was the first year VW used fuel injection instead of carbs. Every now and then one of the injector hoses would come loose and shoot gas all over the the engine, which would then catch fire. I would have to pull over and and shoot it with my fire extinguisher. I'd wait for everything to cool a bit, fix the hose (usually involving duct tape and or JB weld) and be on my way. I saw it as a minor inconvenience.


____________________________________________________
Sig line has been self censored.


chainpin

Dec 21, 11 12:54

Post #92 of 108 (695 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Rob C in FL] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rob C in FL wrote:
"GM will recall the more than 6,000 Volts now on the road"

I wouldn't snicker if I were you. 6,000 volts is a lot of potential.

Not really, now if they named it the Chevy Amp then you'd be dead on.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



chainpin

Dec 21, 11 12:57

Post #93 of 108 (688 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rob, thanks for jumpstarting this thread again...

Here is your 6,000 volts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIy3GqS-cd8

See not too bad.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



Eppur si muove

Dec 22, 11 12:36

Post #94 of 108 (649 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] (Deleted by ___) [In reply to]

 


gymrat

Dec 22, 11 13:08

Post #95 of 108 (642 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Why does it have to be under 20k? This a very nice car. Not very many luxury cars mid size vehicle with leather, nav etc for less than 20k if any.

Most cars have some kind of gov't subsidy whether it is tax breaks on building the factory, duty protections from international competition, or moving auto design into a particular strategic direction that is beneficial to gov't goals.

Regardless of what you may say or think low gasoline consumption
vehicles are the future.

As a tax payer, and an individual who is getting more and more disgusted by the dependence of gas I think GM and the gov't pushing alternative fuel vehicles is a good thing.

10 Cervelo P2C
09 Ridley Noah


chainpin

Jan 4, 12 9:40

Post #96 of 108 (549 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [gymrat] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Add another FAIL to the long list of FAILS which define Obama's Volt:

And remember, that Obama bought 80% of these pig fuckers.

http://news.cnet.com/...t-year-sales-target/

General Motors reported solid growth in vehicle sales this year, but its high-profile electric Chevy Volt fell short of targets.

The company reported today that it sold 7,671 Chevy Volts in 2011, fewer than the 10,000 it had expected to sell. There were more than 1,500 Volts sold in December, the best month since the car was launched in late 2010.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06



Quel

Jan 4, 12 9:47

Post #97 of 108 (541 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The term FAIL is used too liberally now a days. Back in my day, it meant "epic fail", not "missed a business target but just had best month ever".


riotgear

Jan 4, 12 9:55

Post #98 of 108 (536 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [Rob C in FL] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rob C in FL wrote:

If they'd named it the Chevy Amp, they'd just be generating current.

/facepalm


DavHamm

Jan 4, 12 11:17

Post #99 of 108 (510 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [chainpin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Chainpin you really are a bitter person over this.

I feel sorry for you. Hopefully someday you will let it go and move.
_________
Just Triing

Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.


chainpin

Jan 4, 12 11:30

Post #100 of 108 (498 views)
Re: Chevy Volt Green Car Disaster--Government Motors to Buy Back Lemons [DavHamm] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

DavHamm wrote:
Chainpin you really are a bitter person over this.

I feel sorry for you. Hopefully someday you will let it go and move.

I'm not bitter, what do you think I was a pre-bankruptcy bondholder or something.

Those guys are the bitter ones--I mean, who wouldn't be having decades of bankruptcy case law shit on so that Obama can advance his socialist agenda and nationalize GM while also handing over ownership to the UAW union thug machine.

Those guys are bitter.

Me, I just want to see GM fail, die, and never come back.

Is that too much to ask for a company that has perverted our capitalist system?

You know markets, you know the pump and dump that went on with GM, the channel stuffing ahead of the IPO and the subsequent crash and burn that is going to leave taxpayers with shit.

On second thought maybe I am a little bitter, since I continue to be shit on as a taxpaper by Obama and the union cunts that run this pig.


"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06


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