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Bush's War

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BarryP

Jun 11, 12 7:50

Post #1 of 194 (2007 views)

Bush's War	Quote \| Reply

Over the last 10 years I've read a bit on the events that lead to the war in Iraq. I started watching Frontline's Bush's War last night (while I practice my rudiments).

I'm just curious if there are people out there that will still maintain that the administration did not intentionally manipulate the public into going to war with Iraq. Is this just a big left wing conspiracy?
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Duffy

Jun 11, 12 7:54

Post #2 of 194 (1987 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."

j p o

Jun 11, 12 7:57

Post #3 of 194 (1975 views)

Re: Bush's War [Duffy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Duffy wrote:

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

Warn us when you are going to spin that hard. I think I just got whiplash.

Fleck

Jun 11, 12 7:57

Post #4 of 194 (1976 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Is this just a big left wing conspiracy?

Barry,

No. My sense, is the right wing politicians, who are more far to the right, such as George W Bush, are wont to bend the truth, manipulate the facts, skip over key bits of evidence, shun logic or specific research, to stand up for an ideology. There is a pattern and a history, that backs this up.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog | EventsOnline | Bibnumbers.com

Hubblesmith

Jun 11, 12 7:57

Post #5 of 194 (1972 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It is NOT just a big left wing conspiracy. It is simple fact of reality that the Bush administration - in coordination with Ariel Sharon's administration (via the Office of Special Plans) - manufactured bogus intelligence and sold it to the world for the express purpose of launching a war of aggression.

M~

Jun 11, 12 7:58

Post #6 of 194 (1970 views)

Re: Bush's War [Duffy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Duffy wrote:

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

WW2?

YaHey

Jun 11, 12 8:00

Post #7 of 194 (1967 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Duffy

Jun 11, 12 8:00

Post #8 of 194 (1967 views)

Re: Bush's War [M~] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

M~ wrote:

Duffy wrote:

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

WW2?

Ha ha.

____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."

iRan

Jun 11, 12 8:01

Post #9 of 194 (1963 views)

Re: Bush's War [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yeah, the right-wing politicians really have exclusive rights to those traits. You may want to loosen the screws on your partisan blinders, they seem to be cutting off the flow of blood to your brain.

Of course, if you were attempting to lower your contributions to YaHey like levels, then I offer my congratulations. You have succeeded!

(This post was edited by jar1635 on Jun 11, 12 8:02)

Duffy

Jun 11, 12 8:02

Post #10 of 194 (1960 views)

Re: Bush's War [j p o] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

j p o wrote:

Duffy wrote:

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

Warn us when you are going to spin that hard. I think I just got whiplash.

Not spin, jackass. Answer the question. Which war did we get into without manipulating the public?

____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."

YaHey

Jun 11, 12 8:04

Post #11 of 194 (1955 views)

Re: Bush's War [jar1635] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Really, when was the last time the left sent America into war.

You know, that schtick of "the left does it too" doesn't give you much credibility, because it admits the right did it.

j p o

Jun 11, 12 8:12

Post #12 of 194 (1943 views)

Re: Bush's War [Duffy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Duffy wrote:

j p o wrote:

Duffy wrote:

BarryP wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a country went to war without manipulating the public?

Warn us when you are going to spin that hard. I think I just got whiplash.

Not spin, jackass. Answer the question. Which war did we get into without manipulating the public?

Well, prick, you didn't answer the first question so, you first. (oh gee I can call names too).

You seem to want to equate the run up to WWII with the Iraq war. If you cannot see the glaring differences between the two then I cannot help you.

last tri in 83

Jun 11, 12 8:16

Post #13 of 194 (1931 views)

Re: Bush's War [YaHey] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Huh? Here is a list of the democrats who sent us into Iraq:

http://www.flyingsnail.com/Dahbud/voted4war.html

Who sent us into WW2 and Viet Nam?

_____________________________________________
To err is human, to forgive, canine

bluemonkeytri

Jun 11, 12 8:18

Post #14 of 194 (1924 views)

Re: Bush's War [YaHey] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

By "left", do you mean Democrats? Johnson put ground troops in Vietnam and Truman put us in Korea.

Hubblesmith

Jun 11, 12 8:19

Post #15 of 194 (1923 views)

Re: Bush's War [Duffy] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Duffy wrote:

Which war did we get into without manipulating the public?

Probably none - including our one and only just war - the revolutionary war.

50+

Jun 11, 12 8:20

Post #16 of 194 (1920 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

This is going to be a great thread, it will be interesting to see how many will still try and justify the slaughter of over 100,000 human lives.

Fleck

Jun 11, 12 8:21

Post #17 of 194 (1916 views)

Re: Bush's War [jar1635] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yeah, the right-wing politicians really have exclusive rights to those traits. You may want to loosen the screws on your partisan blinders, they seem to be cutting off the flow of blood to your brain.

I speak as an outside observer, so my apologies. As such, honestly the line between left and right in the U.S. is a bit blurred and has been for some time.

It's part of the problem that is plaguing the U.S. right now - the hyper-partisanship, but both sides essentially doing the same thing when in office. What's needed is someone speaking for the real and true collective good for the country to move forward. The problem right now is the pills that need to be swallowed are bitter - people don't like that, so the politicians sugar coat it. "Yes, we can balance the budget and slay the debt, by cutting taxes, with no spending cuts". Right or left, if you believe that, then, well . . . I am not sure what to say. I suggest, with all due respect you are living in a fantasy world.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog | EventsOnline | Bibnumbers.com

Hubblesmith

Jun 11, 12 8:24

Post #18 of 194 (1907 views)

Re: Bush's War [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Fleck wrote:

"Yes, we can balance the budget and slay the debt, by cutting taxes, with no spending cuts".

You seriously think there is anyone in the US who believes that?!? SERIOUSLY?!? If so, you're more delusional than the imaginary person who believes it.

j p o

Jun 11, 12 8:25

Post #19 of 194 (1904 views)

Re: Bush's War [last tri in 83] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

last tri in 83 wrote:

Huh? Here is a list of the democrats who sent us into Iraq:

http://www.flyingsnail.com/Dahbud/voted4war.html

Who sent us into WW2 and Viet Nam?

You forgot Korea.

The idea that only one party or the other has a monopoly on bad behavior is naive at best. I don't think Bush's (or Cheney or Rumsfeld) politics were what caused that fiasco.

I think Cheney has seen too many bad things. When you see him talk he seems to truly believe that "they" are coming to get us and have the means and desire to destroy the world in an instant. It seems like he has been in a few too many frightening briefings.

I don't even think Bush had some sort of evil plan or the like. I think he believed that there was actually a threat from Hussein and was blinded by that thought. I think in his mind contrary evidence was dismissed and new evidence manufactured to take its place because the war had to be sold to prevent this huge threat that he saw. He was clearly wrong and caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, but at least he meant well.

Duffy

Jun 11, 12 8:27

Post #20 of 194 (1896 views)

Re: Bush's War [j p o] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I find it puzzling that so many think that lying and manipulation for the purpose making a population comfortable with the mass killing of others is somehow unique to W.

Equally puzzling is the belief that this type of thing didn't happen during, or in the lead up to, WWII.

And think about how we fought WWII. We firebombed Dresden. Civilians. Kill 'em all. Much of our massive civilian killing (millions) happened before we knew about the concentration camp.

War is hell. Truth is the first casualty. This is not unique to Bush.

____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."

MJuric

Jun 11, 12 8:27

Post #21 of 194 (1897 views)

Re: Bush's War [Fleck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

No. My sense, is the right wing politicians, who are more far to the right, such as George W Bush, are wont to bend the truth, manipulate the facts, skip over key bits of evidence, shun logic or specific research, to stand up for an ideology. There is a pattern and a history, that backs this up.

I don't believe this is a "Far to the right" issue as an issue with anyone who get's tunnel vision.

Personally I don't think this was a case of Bush and his Administration purposefully deceiving the US public to try and start a war, I think this is a case of a group of people that devoutly held a belief and were blind to all other possibilities. In short a classic case of Tunnel Vision. Nothing specific to right or left.

~Matt

MJuric

Jun 11, 12 8:34

Post #22 of 194 (1882 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm just curious if there are people out there that will still maintain that the administration did not intentionally manipulate the public into going to war with Iraq. Is this just a big left wing conspiracy?

I think this depends on what you mean by "Intentionally manipulate". Do I think that the administration and all those involved knowing and purposefully invaded Iraq with the belief that they knew there was no WMD's and that they knew there was no biological weapons and they knew that Hussein was of no threat. No I don't believe that at all. OTOH do I think they had other beliefs that kept them from seeing the truth about the reality of the situation and that allowed them to believe all these things and did they attempt to swing the population to their same belief to garner support for their actions, absolutely.

There is however a MAJOR difference between the two. The former being a purposefully manipulation to mislead the public into doing something they KNEW was not what they were manipulating support for. The latter was little more than tunnel vision and typical political manipulation that takes place on many different levels on a daily basis where politics is concerned.

~Matt

patf

Jun 11, 12 8:34

Post #23 of 194 (1881 views)

Re: Bush's War [BarryP] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I did not see the program you are talking about, but I find it hard to believe that the Bush tried to get us into an unnecesary war with Iraq. Could he have been mislead, sure. I think most of us were at the time by the UN and media.

I also find it odd that people try to push this agenda of conspircy, forget it was the UN that was enforcing arms limitations through regular random inspections of Iraq facilities. And it was Saddam Hussein that was constanly delaying their inspections at the same time that there was many trucks entering and leaving said locations. And then only after several days of trucking activity he would allow the inspections. This was going on for some time. It certainly looked like Saddam Hussein was working on Weapons of Mass Distruction and moving them before inspections. The US does not control the UN inspectors and they thought Iraq was up to something with the constant bad faith in allowing ispections.

Now we know that Saddam was bolstering. He was no where near as close in building these weapons as he let on. But if he had been as far along as some thought then it would have been wrong to let him develop these weapons and use them on Israel, Iran, and the US. You've got to wonder why he tried so hard to fool the UN, major news media, and the US into thinking he was a threat. I guess he never thought we would actually take action and his image would be enhanced by fighting the UN and alies. It just seems so self destructive to act the way he did when you look back on it.

MJuric

Jun 11, 12 8:36

Post #24 of 194 (1876 views)

Re: Bush's War [YaHey] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm just wondering if the right wingers in the LR, who all thought we should be in Iraq, still think we should have been in Iraq. A few years ago, anyone who opposed the Iraq war in the LR was a traitor.

I actually was against going into Iraq in the first place, but was also against simply pulling out once we were there and had screwed everything up.

I was actually for going into Afghanistan, but at this point am wondering if we would have been better off taking a more subversive approach.

~Matt

BarryP

Jun 11, 12 8:37

Post #25 of 194 (1875 views)

Re: Bush's War [MJuric] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Quote:

Personally I don't think this was a case of Bush and his Administration purposefully deceiving the US public to try and start a war, I think this is a case of a group of people that devoutly held a belief and were blind to all other possibilities. In short a classic case of Tunnel Vision. Nothing specific to right or left.

So, IOW, this was another Vietnam......except in this case the US played the role of the Communists.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

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