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Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy
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Paddywhack
May 31, 12 8:48
Post #1 of 85
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Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy
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Four years ago conservatives in America were demanding to know every detail of every church sermon Barack Obama ever heard. They were demanding to know what churches he attended, who the preachers were, and what their political beliefs might be. It was very important for them to know the deep held belief system that was driving the young Senator from Illinois. Some suspected him of being a black liberation theologist because a preacher at his church gave a few fiery sermons, many more suspected him of not being a christian at all and that he was a closet muslim because he has a strange muslim sounding name and lived in Indonesia for a short time as a child. Whatever their motivations, they felt it was vital that America know and understand the belief system that guided Barack Obama's decision making and his moral compass.
Fast forward 4 years and there is another candidate for President with an unorthodox religious past. Willard Romney. Willard Romney is a high ranking ordained Bishop in the church of Latter Day Saints. He doesn't sit in a pew and listen to sermons, he actually gives them. He is responsible for the spiritual guidance of his congregation and for imparting mormon doctrine to them; at least I believe that to be the case given that the traditional role of the clergy in most other organized religions. I have to guess at Bishop Romney's role in the mormon church because very little is actually known about the inner workings of the LDS. It is perhaps the most secretive and closeted religious organization out there, on a par with scientology or opus dei.
We all know some of the funny mormon stuff, guy falls asleep under a tree and wakes up with a whole new religion in his head, magic underwear, other planets with other gods, multiple heavens, baptizing jews, etc etc. all very amusing but no more than standard catholic doctrine and their blood and flesh, or pentecostalists with their yammering in tongues and snake charming. What I am curious about is the belief system that is so important to Willard Romney that he decided to become a Bishop in his church. What is that system? what are its central tenets? what role will it play, if any, in a potential President Romney's decision making process.
I'd also really like to know why the conservatives of 4 years ago who were so curious about Barack Obama's faith, are so silent about Bishop Romney's.
Old Hickory
May 31, 12 8:52
Post #2 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Oh Paddy, Paddy, Paddy.
Got any original stuff that is not faxed from the White House?
big kahuna
May 31, 12 8:52
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Paddywhack wrote:
Four years ago conservatives in America were demanding to know every detail of every church sermon Barack Obama ever heard. They were demanding to know what churches he attended, who the preachers were, and what their political beliefs might be. It was very important for them to know the deep held belief system that was driving the young Senator from Illinois. Some suspected him of being a black liberation theologist because a preacher at his church gave a few fiery sermons, many more suspected him of not being a christian at all and that he was a closet muslim because he has a strange muslim sounding name and lived in Indonesia for a short time as a child. Whatever their motivations, they felt it was vital that America know and understand the belief system that guided Barack Obama's decision making and his moral compass.
Fast forward 4 years and there is another candidate for President with an unorthodox religious past. Willard Romney. Willard Romney is a high ranking ordained Bishop in the church of Latter Day Saints. He doesn't sit in a pew and listen to sermons, he actually gives them. He is responsible for the spiritual guidance of his congregation and for imparting mormon doctrine to them; at least I believe that to be the case given that the traditional role of the clergy in most other organized religions. I have to guess at Bishop Romney's role in the mormon church because very little is actually known about the inner workings of the LDS. It is perhaps the most secretive and closeted religious organization out there, on a par with scientology or opus dei.
We all know some of the funny mormon stuff, guy falls asleep under a tree and wakes up with a whole new religion in his head, magic underwear, other planets with other gods, multiple heavens, baptizing jews, etc etc. all very amusing but no more than standard catholic doctrine and their blood and flesh, or pentecostalists with their yammering in tongues and snake charming. What I am curious about is the belief system that is so important to Willard Romney that he decided to become a Bishop in his church. What is that system? what are its central tenets? what role will it play, if any, in a potential President Romney's decision making process.
I'd also really like to know why the conservatives of 4 years ago who were so curious about Barack Obama's faith, are so silent about Bishop Romney's.
Ah, yes. Mormon bigotry. The last "cool" bigotry left, and especially among the so-called "reality based community."
Truth is, I've served alongside many, many LDS folks and, without exception, they all led the kind of exemplary lives -- filled with love of country, patriotism, charity to others, good works, tithing to their church...you name it -- we all secretly wish we could lead. Some were officers, some were enlisted. All were the kind of people I wish I could've turned out to be.
Good luck trying to push this meme, lad.
Paddywhack
May 31, 12 9:01
Post #4 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [big kahuna]
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Are you playing the mormon card? tsk tsk tsk!
I'm an equal opportunity bigot,. I find all organized religions equally ridiculous.
Aren't you curious about the beliefs that drive Mitt Romney's decision making?
rick_pcfl
May 31, 12 9:04
Post #5 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Just go away. You joined ST a week ago just so you can post your talking points given to you by your masters. Time for you to "move on".
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dvfmfidc
May 31, 12 9:06
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [rick_pcfl]
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PADDYWHACK.....AKA....Yahey...........
Old Hickory
May 31, 12 9:13
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [dvfmfidc]
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Does YaHey always get blamed for the new idiots?
Paddy is a plant of the White House. A college kid on loan for the summer. He's making a difference, one cut and paste job at a time.
big kahuna
May 31, 12 9:15
Post #8 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Paddywhack wrote:
Are you playing the mormon card? tsk tsk tsk!
I'm an equal opportunity bigot,. I find all organized religions equally ridiculous.
Aren't you curious about the beliefs that drive Mitt Romney's decision making?
Seems to me that the guy -- if he's indeed using his so-called faith to inform his decisions, at least partly -- has been pretty good at being a success, not only for himself and his family but for the people around him. A red governor in a deep-dyed blue state that he led to a super-low 4.7% unemployment rate (5% unemployment is considered "full employment," by the way). Saves the Salt Lake City Olympics, creates value and jobs and saves about 80% of the companies in which Bain Capital invested during his tenure. He's been a 'winner,' in other words. And people like winners who they KNOW can do the same thing for them.
Take today, for example. "Unexpectedly,"
Q1 GDP was revised downward yet again to a measly 1.9%
.
Jobless claims rose for the 4th straight week
, too. Believe me, a lot of folks are going to look at what Romney's done and what your guy's done, and continues to do, and will come to the same conclusion I have: "Mormonism? Who gives a damn? "JOBISM" is what counts most." Romney's created them in droves, and been a success at pretty much everything he's undertaken. CHA-CHING, BAY-BEE!
Duffy
May 31, 12 9:17
Post #9 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Paddywhack wrote:
Are you playing the mormon card? tsk tsk tsk!
I'm an equal opportunity bigot,. I find all organized religions equally ridiculous.
Aren't you curious about the beliefs that drive Mitt Romney's decision making?
In a way, I'm a little curious about "your" beliefs. Just a little.
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
big kahuna
May 31, 12 9:19
Post #10 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [dvfmfidc]
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dvfmfidc wrote:
PADDYWHACK.....AKA....Yahey...........
Knick knack, Paddywhack, give a dawg a bone! You know, the dog Obama ate? (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)
jkca1
May 31, 12 9:21
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Isn't Tibbs living in the center of Mormon activity? I'd like to hear his .2 on life as a non-Mormon there.
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
big kahuna
May 31, 12 9:23
Post #12 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [jkca1]
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jkca1 wrote:
Isn't Tibbs living in the center of Mormon activity? I'd like to hear his .2 on life as a non-Mormon there.
Lord, don't drag Tibbsy into this. We'll have to listen to two hours of why all religions suck and why his humanistic worldview is superior to all other worldviews. ;-)
MJuric
May 31, 12 9:33
Post #13 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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It was very important for them to know the deep held belief system that was driving the young Senator from Illinois.
I think this should answer your question.
Obama graduated in 1983 from college and did various community jobs until 1997 when he started his first public office position. He started Campaigning for president in 2006-2007. So really less than 10 years of public office or any type of vetting with very little to go on.
Romney OTOH started working for Bain in 1977. His first election was four years prior to Obama's followed by being governor and a previous presidential run.
IOW if something was going to come up about his involvement with the LDS I suspect it would have come out by now. Since it hasn't odds are there's nothing negative there and from what I've read there's quite a bit of positive there. Furthermore things did come out on Obama's first vetting for president and his choice of churches that WAS negative and WAS inline with much of his other apparent beliefs and life work.
As to the "Funny stuff"...can you name an organized religion that DOESN'T have some funny stuff? Raising from the dead, water to wine, burning bushes, traveling in the belly of a whale?
I'm no fan of religion either, but when used for good there are a powerful thing. When used for not good they are also a powerful thing.
~Matt
MJuric
May 31, 12 9:35
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Old Hickory]
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Paddy is a plant of the White House. A college kid on loan for the summer. He's making a difference, one cut and paste job at a time.
IF this is the case I really hope he stays and learns something.
~Matt
MJuric
May 31, 12 9:35
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [jkca1]
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Isn't Tibbs living in the center of Mormon activity? I'd like to hear his .2 on life as a non-Mormon there.
I thought he moved back to Texas.
~Matt
AlanShearer
May 31, 12 10:08
Post #16 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Four years ago conservatives in America were demanding to know every detail of every church sermon Barack Obama ever heard. They were demanding to know what churches he attended, who the preachers were, and what their political beliefs might be. It was very important for them to know the deep held belief system that was driving the young Senator from Illinois. Some suspected him of being a black liberation theologist because a preacher at his church gave a few fiery sermons, many more suspected him of not being a christian at all and that he was a closet muslim because he has a strange muslim sounding name and lived in Indonesia for a short time as a child. Whatever their motivations, they felt it was vital that America know and understand the belief system that guided Barack Obama's decision making and his moral compass.
I think you're re-writing history a bit here. But regardless, the fact that others may have been bigoted, ignorant, political hacks doesn't justify you're being an equally if not more bigoted, ignorant, political hack.
He doesn't sit in a pew and listen to sermons, he actually gives them. He is responsible for the spiritual guidance of his congregation and for imparting mormon doctrine to them;
at least I believe that to be the case given that the traditional role of the clergy in most other organized religions
.
In other words, you know nothing about Mormonism, but you're going to draw conclusions anyway based on your limited knowledge of other religious traditions.
I have to guess at Bishop Romney's role in the mormon church because very little is actually known about the inner workings of the LDS. It is perhaps the most secretive and closeted religious organization out there, on a par with scientology or opus dei.
Or maybe it's because you just don't want to do even a minimal amount of research. Little actually known? How about readily available, by both Mormon and non-Mormon sources. You can start with the role of a Mormon bishop. Again, pretty easy to find out what that is.
What I am curious about is the belief system that is so important to Willard Romney that he decided to become a Bishop in his church. What is that system? what are its central tenets? what role will it play, if any, in a potential President Romney's decision making process.
If you're so curious, then look into it. Again, it's all out in the open -- what Bishops do, the Church's organization and hierarchy, roles of all officials, core beliefs and doctrine (although with the beliefs and doctrine part, there will be some disagreement, because it's a misperception that Mormonism is a monolithic religion), etc. Even certain practices that Mormons don't generally discuss
in detail
publicly, such as temple ordinances, are all a google click away.
I would think that, if you want to know his decision making process, the best place to go would be his record in business and as a public official.
Rodred
May 31, 12 10:15
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [big kahuna]
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big kahuna wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Isn't Tibbs living in the center of Mormon activity? I'd like to hear his .2 on life as a non-Mormon there.
Lord, don't drag Tibbsy into this. We'll have to listen to two hours of why all religions suck and why his humanistic worldview is superior to all other worldviews. ;-)
I laughed
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
big kahuna
May 31, 12 10:35
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Rodred]
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Rodred wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Isn't Tibbs living in the center of Mormon activity? I'd like to hear his .2 on life as a non-Mormon there.
Lord, don't drag Tibbsy into this. We'll have to listen to two hours of why all religions suck and why his humanistic worldview is superior to all other worldviews. ;-)
I laughed
I love Tibbsy but I love my sanity even more. ;-)
Paddywhack
May 31, 12 10:53
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [big kahuna]
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So you're all happy electing a Bishop without ever heaing one of his sermons?
iRan
May 31, 12 10:57
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Have you listened to one of his sermons? How do you know what you are missing?
Oh, right, your daily talking points memo.
I'm curious - do you get paid per post? Or, is this an hourly gig?
Paddywhack
May 31, 12 11:01
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [jar1635]
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I have never listened to A Bishop Romney sermon, as a matter of fact I've never even seen one in print, which concerns me. I'm not sure I want to vote for a Bishop who doesn't want me to know what he preaches to his flock. I think that sort of stuff is important to know when electing a President. We've never elected a Bishop before so we ought to have all the facts and information don't you think? before making such a judgement call? Or we could just say he's not Obama and let the cards fall where they may.
big kahuna
May 31, 12 11:02
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Paddywhack wrote:
So you're all happy electing a Bishop without ever heaing one of his sermons?
I've actually had the opportunity to hear what these folks say and what they're not saying, and we used to rent one of our houses to the LDS folks so their people could stay there for their two-year missions preaching to the heathens in Detroit and Redford and the downriver communities. They're certainly not saying anything more disturbing than what you might have heard in Reverend Jeremiah Wright's sermons, believe me.
(This post was
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by big kahuna on May 31, 12 11:29)
Eppur si muove
May 31, 12 11:02
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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I notice that you and Tashatexas have something in common: Neither of you has ever posted to the Triathlon forum. Here's a great idea: Why don't the two of you put together a two-person relay team for your first triathlon? It's a great way to get initiated to the sport, get familiar with the mechanics of T1 and T2, etc.
thesnail
May 31, 12 11:08
Post #24 of 85
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [jar1635]
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Bishops don't give " sermons", they give "talks" and they are all about the same, nothing exciting. They usually have regular full time jobsand they are very busy . Weddings,funerals,all kinds of church meetings etc... At the end of the year you bring in your payroll records for the year to the Bish and make sure your really paying 10 percent(of your gross).
'STICK EM UP PUNK ITS THE FUN LOVING CRIMINAL'
Eppur si muove
May 31, 12 11:14
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Re: Bishop Romney, the mormon church, and secrecy [Paddywhack]
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Paddywhack wrote:
So you're all happy electing a Bishop without ever heaing one of his sermons?
I'm not planning to vote for him and I despise some of his politics. Other than that, as far as I'm concerned, a bishop can do pretty much whatever he wants as long as he stays on a diagonal.
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