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Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment
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Basically this appeals court says you can pick and choose between one of the two, and if you dare protect your self against an unannounced Breaking and Entering by people who happen to have a bad and you have no reason to be expecting a visit from said people, you are SOL. Not only will you be gunned down with impunity, but individual officers not only are immune from criminal prosecution, but now civil actions.

http://www.nationalreview.com/...ircuit-appeals-court


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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Hey - nobody is talking about this because your intro sucks and people don't like to click on links (even if they request them!).

So basically, cops showed up at the wrong house in the middle of the night, didn't identify themselves and shot the scared guy who answered the door with a gun. FREEDOM!

I agree - this is disgustingly wrong. The court refusing to award even civil damages is adding insult to an already fatal injury. I don't necessarily see this is as a 2nd amendment issue. It's an issue with how we do law enforcement in the US. Coincidentally - this is what the BLM crowd has been saying for several years. They have a point - it's more likely to happen to them than it is to me, a white dude.

Anyway, another innocent guy had to die so that we can all try to avoid something like this. Remember to identify yourself (and ask who's trying to get into your house) next time your house is under siege in the middle of the night I guess.

I saw 5 cop cars on my commute to work this morning. 10 miles through a small town of approximately 20K people. 3 different agencies. I don't feel safe enough, though. Maybe we should spend an additional 50+ billion annually beefing up security.
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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What a disaster. I understand that police officers may have to make life and death decisions in split seconds but that doesn't excuse them from accountability. Showing up at the wrong house and gunning down an innocent man is inexcusable and their should be consequences.

My friend is a DEA agent and doesn't like the idea of body cameras but I think all traditional cops should be wearing them. I was about 10 years old and pulled a neighbor kid of a younger kid who he was punching. The kid delivering the beat down had a cop for a Dad and he filed assault charges against me. You wouldn't believe the hoops we had to jump through to get the charges dropped because he was a cop. It's scary the way the system protects their own.
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [SailorSam] [ In reply to ]
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SailorSam wrote:
Hey - nobody is talking about this because your intro sucks and people don't like to click on links (even if they request them!).

So basically, cops showed up at the wrong house in the middle of the night, didn't identify themselves and shot the scared guy who answered the door with a gun. FREEDOM!

I agree - this is disgustingly wrong. The court refusing to award even civil damages is adding insult to an already fatal injury. I don't necessarily see this is as a 2nd amendment issue. It's an issue with how we do law enforcement in the US. Coincidentally - this is what the BLM crowd has been saying for several years. They have a point - it's more likely to happen to them than it is to me, a white dude.

Anyway, another innocent guy had to die so that we can all try to avoid something like this. Remember to identify yourself (and ask who's trying to get into your house) next time your house is under siege in the middle of the night I guess.

I saw 5 cop cars on my commute to work this morning. 10 miles through a small town of approximately 20K people. 3 different agencies. I don't feel safe enough, though. Maybe we should spend an additional 50+ billion annually beefing up security.

And I'm on record here saying this was an issue for years, but unlike the BLM protest, it isn't a black and white thing. It is a blue vs everybody thing. If the police screw up and people die, the burden to get justice is very high, no matter what your color is. The chances of encountering the police are much higher in the black community, but so are your chances of being involved in crime. It does take white middle class people seeing there is a problem and rational/sober solutions to the problem. Not riots and protests that negatively impact people who have nothing to do with the problem. I thought BLM was onto something, if not misguided in identifying the problem and too narrowly focused, but they lost all credibility when they shut down highways, malls and their protest in many cases let to rioting and opportunistic looting.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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This is fucked. Their argument for qualified immunity is that there needs to be a court precedent with basically the exact same set of circumstances in order to create "clearly established federal law," and for the officer to have "fair notice" that he was acting unlawfully. Since when are constitutional rights not clearly established federal law?

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The dissents define clearly established federal law at too high a level of generality, in contravention of the Supreme Court’s precedent requiring a case with particularized and similar factual circumstances in order to create “clearly established” federal law.
(Source)

How can any law enforcement officer be held accountable if that's the standard?
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [SailorSam] [ In reply to ]
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Legalize drugs and none of this happens.

Callusing the mind through pain and suffering

- David Goggins
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Re: Another win for the bad guys - 2nd vs 4th amendment [Dgconner154] [ In reply to ]
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Dgconner154 wrote:
This is fucked. Their argument for qualified immunity is that there needs to be a court precedent with basically the exact same set of circumstances in order to create "clearly established federal law," and for the officer to have "fair notice" that he was acting unlawfully. Since when are constitutional rights not clearly established federal law?

Quote:
The dissents define clearly established federal law at too high a level of generality, in contravention of the Supreme Court’s precedent requiring a case with particularized and similar factual circumstances in order to create “clearly established” federal law.
(Source)

How can any law enforcement officer be held accountable if that's the standard?

Trick question. It can't. While I don't give obama a lot of credit, even obama and his AG had problems with they system and how it put citizens at odds with the police state. Unfortunately their focus tended to be on minority vs police encounters. But they made little progress.

I definitely see no progress under trump and sessions on this front. Maybe even get worse.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Quote Reply