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Time between trials?
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Interesting phenomenon I 'might' have noticed while using a Retul fit bike, adjusting drop, and asking for rider feedback. If I make about 6 full turns of the handle leisurely (about 1.5cm change), over a few seconds time, compared to making those turns super fast, say in less than half a second, the rider seems better able to perceive differences with the faster adjustments.

Has anyone else experienced this? Having done many hundreds of fits, I never picked up on this until just this past week, so certainly an N= "just a few" at this point. The difference in one particular clients' ability to discern differences was fairly profound. A couple others seemed to be helped by the lightning fast changes. And I mean I turn that handle so fast it almost drops them down at the speed of free fall.

I consider it limiting the "time between trials" in an extreme sense. Thoughts?

Finding Freestyle - We don't critique your swim. We free your mind.

Formerly and currently Dave Luscan
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Re: Time between trials? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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very interesting thoughts, Dave, I agree with what you're saying.
I think the very concept of moving the rider is not at all discussed. We are all taught to gauge the riders' 'feelings' or sensations but not to consider the tempo of that move. If Fitting is like music, we are the conductors and the rider is the musician?

Part of the reason I like FIST is that it is the BAM method: here you are 'here', here you are THERE, BAM.

On the other hand, microincremental movements can lead a rider in a way you may not otherwise be able to.

Sometimes I make a small movement and the rider feels it, sometimes they are clueless. Right from the start in a fitting I'm saying to them "this is a 2cm move" on whatever axis, to somewhat clue them in. Often they feel an SX change as a Hbar change - they don't realise that it isn't the bars moving.

I would ask at what point of the fit did you go 'piano' vs. BAM. Early on, or, after the saddle height is set?

I guess just about any answer to Bike Fitting is: it depends. Isn't that the worst reply? But now you have a nuance, or another tool in your Fit Pocket, to bring to an athlete.

Anne Barnes
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
Live Grit
anne@livegrit.com
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Re: Time between trials? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Dave,

We use the Muve as well, but before that we used the Exit fit bike and as you might know those pistons more or less ' dropped' when you adjusted them. Since this method worked pretty good we adopted this method as well on the Muve. So like you we turn the handles (all of them) as fast as possible. So that every position change is more abrupt to feel then with a slower 1 second turn.

Like Ann says it is how Dan teach at the FIST courses. Do you like this or that, this or that, this or that and it are bam ,bam ,bam changes.
If you do it much slower i tend to see and notice that the subject doesn't experience the changes that good.

Regards,

Jeroen
Tri-Run.com
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Re: Time between trials? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Dave, this has been my go-to move since using the Retul fit bike. I'm specifically looking for muscle loading and rider feedback on the changes. You *have* to go slow, as that's the rate that muscles fire and reload. I'm sure a much more rigorous scientific approach could quantify it better, but when I'm done people feel very strong and efficient.

FindinFreestyle wrote:
Interesting phenomenon I 'might' have noticed while using a Retul fit bike, adjusting drop, and asking for rider feedback. If I make about 6 full turns of the handle leisurely (about 1.5cm change), over a few seconds time, compared to making those turns super fast, say in less than half a second, the rider seems better able to perceive differences with the faster adjustments.

Has anyone else experienced this? Having done many hundreds of fits, I never picked up on this until just this past week, so certainly an N= "just a few" at this point. The difference in one particular clients' ability to discern differences was fairly profound. A couple others seemed to be helped by the lightning fast changes. And I mean I turn that handle so fast it almost drops them down at the speed of free fall.

I consider it limiting the "time between trials" in an extreme sense. Thoughts?

Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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