Okay, let's talk about my "new rules"

Dec 13, 07 10:03

Post #1 of 43 (7804 views)

why did i establish these rules:

1. because this forum is getting bigger, and it's stopped being ONLY a garage sale amongst us who want to get rid of our used stuff. this was originally the place for empowering the secondary market, so that we could dispense of our stuff and go back to the primary market (retailers) with a few more bucks in our hands and a little more space in our garage. but it's not turned into a place where the primary market sells as well. nothing wrong with that. but it was time to put some constrictions on the primary marketers.

2. i'm not interested in being a fence for stolen goods by providing this forum for thieves to peddle their ill-gotten items.

3. i'm not a lawyer, but i've been a party to an awful lot of contracts. lawyers never seem to want to include remedies in their contracts. i find that odd, and a weakness of contracts. i started imposing prescribed remedies in my contracts with athletes back when i was sponsoring them. if an athlete breaks a contract with me, no problem, he can do so. the remedy is, pay me $x for the product I provided, and pay me back all the money i paid you over the last 6mo, or 12mo, whatever. once i placed a finite amount on the breach, wow, there stopped being any breaches. i learned a lesson there. so, what we now have is a specified amount i am owed every time a non-conforming ad is placed. i want the non-conformer to know precisely what it is he's accruing in terms of debt when he acts badly on this forum.

4. i've had it up to here (imagine hand at forehead level) with the guy spamming the forum with nokia cell phone ads. i want him to think twice the next time he spams the site. $75 per ever line item on his ad.

so let's talk about the cell phone thing. one user suggested that i ought to ease off on the tri-specific only element of the rules. i'm okay with doing that, and i'll find another method of charging the cell phone spammer. i'm open to suggestions and comments.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

psycholist

Dec 13, 07 10:13

Post #2 of 43 (7789 views)

so let's talk about the cell phone thing. one user suggested that i ought to ease off on the tri-specific only element of the rules. i'm okay with doing that, and i'll find another method of charging the cell phone spammer. i'm open to suggestions and comments.

Rather than ease off the tri-specific thing in this forum, can you create a "Lavender Classifieds" for non-tri-specific items?

.

Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:14

Post #3 of 43 (7785 views)

Minimum membership level or # of posts before you can sell something? I won't sell to or buy from anyone whos name I don't regognize as a "regular" for what that's worth.

I have done a couple handfulls of transactions on classified without any issues. Only once did I have an ebay style scammer who wanted to buy some race wheels. After a report, the adminstrator got rid of him quickly.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:22

Post #4 of 43 (7767 views)

I'd say keep it tri specific unless you have been a member for 12 months and have xxx posts. We can self police. Non-tri stuff hasn't been unreasonable and except for a few items, I haven't had a problem with it.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:36

Post #5 of 43 (7738 views)

I think a certain threshold for non-tri-related stuff would be reasonable.

People have other things - cameras, mp3 players, clothing, whatever - and as long as they're reputable members of the forum, I have no problem buying these things from them. I am personally trying to sell an old camera to help finance more tri stuff... I would hope the community doesn't consider that a nuisance. I sold one on here and have inquiries about another, and I've put that money directly back into other classifieds posting purchases.

That said, it would be great if there was a minimum post count in the lavender room / main forum before one could post on the classifieds. That would cut down spammers for sure.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:42

Post #6 of 43 (7728 views)

I've had great success selling and buying tri-specific gear on the classifieds forum and hate for a few incidents to totally change how things work. I agree some oversight/rules are necessary but not a total overhaul. That said, I have one specific request:

I'd like to be able to bump my items more frequently than once per week. In a week classified posts can move to the 7th or 8th page I'd guess. How about once per day? All the forums are busy and with that, posts get knocked down pretty quickly. Additionally, the forum is truly global and with users in various time zones it helps to bump at certain times to help ensure different groups see things on the front page.

Just my $.02.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Alpern] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:52

Post #7 of 43 (7708 views)

"That said, it would be great if there was a minimum post count in the lavender room / main forum before one could post on the classifieds. That would cut down spammers for sure."

Yes yes and YES.

I'm fine with the non-tri stuff either way. I just happen to post something yesterday computer related (and just self-deleted it), but am certainly fine if that's to be the new rule. But I think it's OK and hasn't really gotten out of hand ....except Mr Cell phone guy, who is obviously some sort of "commercial" entity.

[edit] re: bumping. Only one bump per week just doesn't match up with the rate that this forum moves -- I say once every 2 days.

Last edited by: AR: Dec 13, 07 10:54

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [sailnfast] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 10:56

Post #8 of 43 (7693 views)

Quote:

3. i'm not a lawyer, but i've been a party to an awful lot of contracts. lawyers never seem to want to include remedies in their contracts. i find that odd, and a weakness of contracts. i started imposing prescribed remedies in my contracts with athletes back when i was sponsoring them. if an athlete breaks a contract with me, no problem, he can do so. the remedy is, pay me $x for the product I provided, and pay me back all the money i paid you over the last 6mo, or 12mo, whatever. once i placed a finite amount on the breach, wow, there stopped being any breaches. i learned a lesson there. so, what we now have is a specified amount i am owed every time a non-conforming ad is placed. i want the non-conformer to know precisely what it is he's accruing in terms of debt when he acts badly on this forum.

It is because penalty clauses are unenforceable in court, something you learn in first year contracts. Putting them in works based upon the lack of knowledge on the party involved. The liquidated damages (what you should try to call them BTW) has to be tied to a real loss.

However, reputation based systems (feedback, post counts, things like that) may prove to be more effective down the line. Additionally, other things I have seen work- no links to external auctions, minimum time/post counts, no professional businesses (if you enforce the no breaching of dealer contract sales, most would have to leave), and bans of the abusive (often commercial) bumpers. There should be a limit on bumps with no new content- maybe 3? Also, with more rules comes a need for more effective moderator teams to police it, unless you want to make this your full time job. WW and RBR use similar approaches to the suggestions. RBR charges for the ads which in turns help support the site.

Just a few ideas, hope they help. I have sold things here and would like to see it continue to thrive.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 11:04

Post #9 of 43 (7674 views)

While I agree that some provision for 'Nokia Man' is probably in order, I think that what little OT classified suff is minimal and usually pretty good. Often times triathlon is not the only hobby we posters have and often these other hobbies overlap. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for those that utilize this forum to be part of the community, and not just a seller, should have some grandfathered right to sell the odd OT item.

Perhaps some sort of regisrtation to be a seller is in order. A kind of designation that says "I'm legit, you know where to find me."

In any case, I spend as much time surfing the classifieds as I do the tri forum, so I really appreciate what you have provided for us and feel bad that it has grown to be a bit of a pain in the a$$.

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 11:19

Post #10 of 43 (7647 views)

dan, you shudda/cudda been a lawyer. nice tone, readability, coverage. i particularly like the "organic" approach: my document lives & breathes!

kate

ps -- all my transactions have been really good. people here are eminently classy. some even threw in free stuff b/c they're such nice guys & great role models for us SCHmucks.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [elf6c] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 11:33

Post #11 of 43 (7629 views)

"no links to external auctions"

I DEFINITELY agree with this one. It's gotten out of hand with all the "check my ad on eBay" posts.

But so far, I've never had a bad experience buying or selling through the ST classifieds.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [brider] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 11:55

Post #12 of 43 (7594 views)

My experiences selling and buying on this forum have always been great. Even trades I've done have gone as smooth as silk.

If a seller is to be "banned", especially one offering such great prices, it better be for a good reason. And Dan has just that. I tried to investigate myself who bikelady was, and had a huntch it was a man. Hiding behind a name like bikelady is a sure way to create anonymity, though. Surely a smart one also.

I do hope that non triathlon items are allowed to stay, as the definition " triathlon item" is vague, at best. An mp3 is not a triathlon item, but I use mine more that I use my bike ( I run and ride with it, nearly always). Cameras, same thing. Triathletes are geek, and soon enough someone will put their iPhone for sale b/c they are upgrading it. I will be the first one in line to buy it!

All that being said, I do support Dan's policing of this forum, even if minimal, it will keep the thing in order. Hopefully bikelady will be more up front in the future, even if only with Da himself, and allowed back.

Ciao,

http://www.Felipe-Bastos.com
--------------------------------------------
Blog: felipebastos.blogspot.com
Facebook: facebook.com/felipebastos
Twitter: @felipebastos1

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [brider] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 12:28

Post #13 of 43 (7559 views)

While I'm fairly new to ST, I have been impressed overall with the candor and kindness received from fellow ST fanatics. I have bought and sold several things on ST and have had perfect transactions both ways so far. IMHO, it's OK for sellers to make reference to auctions on EBAY because they are referencing, or giving reference to the masses, an item they believe to be of interest to our special interest - triathlon. It seems the majority have first posted on ST, then if an item hasn't sold, they put it on EBAY and directed their ST post to the EBay add via link. I did this for a Felt B2 - I tried to sell it here for a week or so, then simply mentioed it was on EBay if anyone had questions about it's status.

Last edited by: albush1: Dec 13, 07 12:35

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 12:33

Post #14 of 43 (7548 views)

I think allowing the sale of non-tri stuff is OK within reason. I have sold SWA roundtrip tickets in the past to people who were traveling to a race...or to Interbike. On the face - this would have been stricken down by the new "rules"...but was sorta tri related. You can tell if someone is abusing the classifieds with these items.

I like the idea of minimum posts (50) or minimum time as a member (1 month) before posting in classifieds. Is this an option for control?

I think bumping your post once every 2 days seems more reasonable. Does replying to notify of a "price drop" count as a "bump"??

I have bought and sold probably 25 things here and would hate to see this option vanish but I think some controls are not a bad thing.

Edited: On the Ebay thing...this is ST classifieds...if you want to sell it on ST do so...if not - then sell it on EBAY. I don't need to know about it. IMO the ST price is better than the EBAY price so I shop here first. EBAY is my last resort.

******************************************************
Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze

Last edited by: Keyser_Soze: Dec 13, 07 12:39

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 16:07

Post #15 of 43 (7400 views)

I belive if you fine the cell guy or charge him,he will look at his sales figure hes still making good money and think ha heres a good place to sell stuff,at this point now the problem just got bigger. Not sure how to fix the problem

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 16:16

Post #16 of 43 (7388 views)

I've bought way more than I've sold on the classifieds. I would never buy new merchandise there for any more than 1/2 unless I knew the seller to be a reputable b&m or online storefront (that said, I don't think I'd ever buy new from the classifieds). I wouldn't mind at all if the classifieds were used items only; as-is where-is. If someone wants to sell new items as such, they should consider taking out advertising space with full disclosure to Dan.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Keyser_Soze] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 16:17

Post #17 of 43 (7387 views)

Quote:

I think bumping your post once every 2 days seems more reasonable. Does replying to notify of a "price drop" count as a "bump"??

I would say no- as a material term (price) has changed. Same thing if you throw in an item you were going to chanrge for, are now willing to break up a wheelset ect. IMHO, of course.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 16:37

Post #18 of 43 (7375 views)

this was originally the place for empowering the secondary market

I totally love the forum for this very reason. People have stuff I can use; I have stuff they can use. I would be very hesitant about buying a big ticket item from anyone I didn't totally trust and would understand others feeling the same. I doubt I've spent more than about $100 on any one item, but I have saved $$$ hundreds in odds and ends items.

I don't mind the "other than tri" items if it is a regular post-er. I'm not fond of the retailers putting their stuff on, mostly because it is near new and more than I want to pay so they bring up my hopes and then dash them with their price. :)

Chad

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [elf6c] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 16:57

Post #19 of 43 (7352 views)

how about the ads are free, but only if you've had a history of 50 posts in any of the forums that are not commerce-related, but only community related? i think somebody mentioned this, i like this rule.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 17:15

Post #20 of 43 (7338 views)

7. You cannot "bump" your own thread more than once a week.

Does this include Demerly's angry beaver trainer deal or has that one been grandfathered thru?

Lewis

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Lactic Achole] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 17:16

Post #21 of 43 (7336 views)

"Does this include Demerly's angry beaver trainer deal or has that one been grandfathered thru?"

why do you think i wrote that rule? just spitball for me, and take a wild guess.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 17:24

Post #22 of 43 (7329 views)

Hey Dan, I'd love to see the "min post" qualifying rule as well. It was actually a PITA on another forum for me recently when I wanted to post a classified but was more of a lurker than a poster but that quickly made me start to become a contributer which is double good!

Maybe a 15 post min before posting a classified ad, this won't cut out everyone but it'll cut out a few.

as far as non-tri stuff I'm fine with it as long as it can be loosely connected to tri... with "loose" being the operative term:) Besides the Nokia a-hole has this been much of a problem.

In addition I love the primary market, aka shops, posting on here once in a while. Everyone seems to be pretty respectful and I don't ever think any boundaries are really pushed. Doesn't look like a problem to me at this point. Note that I type this as I'm about to post a bunch of pics of some cute new women's shirts we just printed and are for sale;)

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 17:40

Post #23 of 43 (7315 views)

I'm all for bannng the links to ebay ads. Those are so annoying. After all, it's not like they're offering something that isn't already on ebay. If we really want the item, trust me, we've already been watching the ebay auctions. It's a classified section - if you 're the 1st to respond you get the item at the advertised price.

There's nothing nothing worse than seeing an ad about an item you want, then you open it up and its a link to someone's ebay sale. Try to sell your item here for a given price. If that doesn't work, then take it over to ebay. That's what I do. No need to spam everyone about your auction.

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 19:09

Post #24 of 43 (7263 views)

i find it interesting that there hasn't been more backlash against (or supporting your idea limiting) bumping posts. Of course everyone wants to keep their posts on the first page, possibly more so when potential commerce is involved. But they should, in good conscience, let the market speak for itself. If no one is interested in your item, it will fade to later pages. If someone is looking for your item, a search will find it. But incessant self promotion through bumps comes at a cost to others who make new posts. If everyone were to repeatedly bump their own posts, what equilibrium would be reached? A new poster's item would immediately be relegated to a later page. Somewhat unfair, methinks

Re: Okay, let's talk about my "new rules" [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 07 20:05

Post #25 of 43 (7231 views)

Slowman - I think it's a good idea to structure the classifieds a bit. I've bought and sold a bunch of stuff here, without any problems, but big ticket items, or new posters can be scary.

is it possible to have a 'feedback' page. I'm sure it could be done several ways, but my first thought is to have a seperate forum page, were anyone who sells starts a thread. On that thread, buyers can then post their experiences. here, new buyers could check out the replies, and decide for themselves if it's legit.

I tend to trust the people around here, but the is always the chance that someone that's been around forever could scam someone, and that the 'new guy' will be a forum heavyweight in a year's time. it's tough to tell, and it should still be our responsibility to decide, but this could help.

I also think anyone who sells should have some form of name and location in their profile. it may not mean much, but it does make things feel more legit (at least to me).

good luck,

mckenzie

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