excuse? under-achieving?

well, let's see:
1 win in the TdF, 5 times second (once behind Bjarne Riis, once behind late Marco Pantani, 3 times behind Lance Armstrong)
1 win in the vuelta
1 olympic title

seems pretty good for an under achiever who has 3 seasons ruined with knee injuries...unluckily for him, Lance has been in the way in the TdF.


Now his comment re. success in the US vs Europe (or the rest of the world for that matter) is true...the US has a society very much based on second place is first loser (not only in sports), it's not the case in many other countries.
Winning is important in other countries, but it's not the main thing.

Seen this debated vigorously in the boxing world after the Chris Byrd/Vitali Klitschko heavyweight fight. Klitschko was easily winning the fight on the score cards but then ruptured a shoulder tendon. The pain was excruciating so he quit the fight even though well ahead on points.

American fans started calling Klitschko a wussy quitter and every other name in the book while the Europeans took an attitude why not quit, prevent further damage and come back another day, which he did do against Lewis.

Personally, I sided with the Europeans. But I think Americans tend to have more of a winner/loser, take no prisoners attitude about many things compared to the Europeans who seem more willing to moderate.

My experience in Asia is that there is a much more winner take all attitude than in the US. In sports, the second place finishers are vilified in the press to a much greater degree than in the US. In many countries and especially Asia, failure in business or university or other career choice will haunt a person for the rest of his(her) life. In the US, most successful entrepreneurs fail one or more times before they succeed. More importantly, these failures are almost a rite of passage. US bankruptcy law is designed to allow companies and individuals to get back in the game. Many countries have weak or non-existent bankruptcy laws which means failure is disastrous and almost impossible to recover from.

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Andrew Inkpen

Our culture is more interested in the outcome than the process. That's why thousands of European fans line race courses and have a picnic. Americans like to get there, get it done and leave early if possible (this is really bad in the area of MN where I live, heck most people leave fireworks early and miss the finale,"just to beat the traffic". It's one reason endurance events aren't that popular outside the participants and we hate sports like soccer. We hate a game that would end in a score of 2-1 but don't mind a football game that ends 14-7, even though the total scores were the same. We tear down a 50 year old building and I've eaten lunches in any given Eurpean village that has a restaurant older than our country. We need a new model car every year and the Europeans evolve their cars often for decades. In a fast paced pop-culture 10 second attention span we only have time for the winner. Too bad.

That's certainly true about Japan.

Apparently the the average self made American millionaire entrapreneur went backrupt 2.3 times before becoming successful.

>>> Is that true? Or just his excuse for seriously under achieving for the past 7 years?

Notice my very American comment, purposely thrown in to make a point? :)

I am proud to be an american and there are things which cause me to not be proud like if you don't win your a looser. It's not unusual to see a reporter put a mike in the face of the second place finisher and say or insinuate how does it feel to loose and/or be a failure. This attitude is all through our society instant gratification win or your nothing. As said eariler the journey and effort are everything. It's nice to win but the critic has no idea how great it can feel to just be in the top 10% or what ever % or just finish. This thread could spaun multiple other threads ie lack of fitness, obese parents living through their kids , tolerance of misbehavior by athletes etc.

Folks still make jokes about the Buffalo Bills losing 4 straight super bowls.

2nd place is the first loser. That's how we (fans, media, etc) view it, then we turn around and whine that athletes have a "winning is everything" attitude. Ironically, if someone wins too much, we start looking for ways to tear them down. We had a similar debate in the athlete suicide threads.

what's the *worst* thing you can win? .... The Silver Medal.

Weird isn't it?

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Funny but when I read your thread you said silver medal I thought silver star then automatically thought no medal of honor because most of those people are dead before it is given. Just an off hand thought. sorry

I have to agree. When I came back from my Ironman everyone asked did you win. Like finishing an Ironman isn't enough

what time did you do?

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I was recently talking to a lady about how we had each celebrated our 40th birthday.



She had done her first marathon. I had done my first ironman. I asked where she ran. She replied "Chicago". She asked where I ran. I replied "Lake Placid". So, she asked if I was going to do the real one. :)

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Happy trails,
Chris

2002 had my 1st DNF. It killed me for a year. This year 2003 , I was very conservative and felt great the whole time. Plan to race one someday ----maybe.

Swim: 1:35

bike: 6hours

run 4:40

total 12:47 I know transitions were slow.

Also I waited for everyone to start the swim and then went. Swimming is my weak point and didn't want to take any chances.

Never -never had any kind of knee injury and had this knot poped up on my knee cap during the bike ???? stopped iced it 10-15 min. , it went down and never hurt again.

Great pace on the run---- NO a consistant pace on the run until mile 19 when I thought I would catch my little brother if I went just a little faster. MISTAKE but a fun one.

All in all a great experience. Never got tired, felt perky : ) talked, enjoyed the day!!!

thanks for asking!!!!

Elway lost three superbowls before going out on top by winning the last two. He'll be remembered as a winner. Sadly for Jim Kelly, he'll be known as the first loser despite all those great victories. It is almost better to be 10th place than 2nd in the US culture. At least no one notices that you "lost". That is why Lance has to win his 6th Tour and go out on top. The entire marketing machine around him now hinges on this expected outcome. Anything else will be a huge loss. I believe Lance himself said: "Losing and Dying are the same thing" (or something to that effect).

lol - you should have asked her the same... (who the hell runs Chicago, anyway? ;) )

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

I'm wondering if America cares that Lance is training all year for one race, while the others are racing a whole circuit?

L'il Earn just won Daytona ... he could lose (or not race) ever other race this season, and he still would have "won daytona" and be a hero.

A boxing champion could train all year for 1 fight, whereas other champions defend their title 3-4 times a year, and the 1-fight per year champ could be frowned upon (especially if he's a Jamaican-born canadian fighting out of England).

Sometimes we like the tested winner, sometimes we like the person that wins the big race. I think it was Francois that compared Lance's career to the other *great* racers. Lance won the TdF, but the other guys had a ton more international wins. Seems like both parties (Lance + Int'l racers) succeed at their goals.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

>I'm wondering if America cares that Lance is training all year for one race, while the others are racing a whole circuit?

If your goal is to win TDF every year, than you better make it your GOAL race. We triathletes know all about GOAL races. You can't peak for everything.

Hey, isn't Tiger Woods in a slump? :)

I think the europeans have it right. When your at work you work. When work is done go to the pub w/ some friends have a beer or two and enjoy your life away from work. Here in the states everybody I know checks email, voicemail at least once after they get home, most everyone I know brings work home and puts in some home office time on the weekends. I read somewhere that our overtime/out of office work time was the only reason that the GDP was up the other year. Same in sports in the US. Winning is everything, even the preseason. Your judged a loser if you get the silver, even though your the second fastest in the world at the moment.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

There are big differences on winning between countries. In the UK we're happy, on occasion, to support the underdog even if they lose. That's not to say we don't like winning. The scene in chariots of fire is an interesting insight into differences. Abrahams employs a coach; so that he can be the best and have a chance at beating the Americans where using a coach is the norm. He is then told off by Cambridge University for doing so as it's not the done thing. In the US there seems to be a win and nothing else is acceptable approach. When the All Blacks (New Zealand rugby team) lose important rugby matches the press heavily criticise them. When the Iraqi football team lost matches, they were tortured. Without all these cultural differences the world would be a very boring place. There's nothing better than beating an arrogant team.