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Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-)
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My vote goes to the ACLU (hee-hee). See, this is why we'll never gain those 'godlike' powers of telepathy, superbrains, and other evolutionary benefits. We just don't allow natural selection to weed out the idiots from the gene pool, anymore ;-)) (article below)



[/url]The book of Rachel



Based on my junk mail, I would guess that when John Ashcroft stepped down as Attorney General the American Civil Liberties Union lost its chief fundraiser. Misrepresentations about Ashcroft and the Patriot Act were prominent features of ACLU fundraising letters during the first term of the Bush administration.

The revelation of the NSA surveillance program of al Qaeda terrorists has given the ACLU and other left-wing "legal rights" organizations such as the Center for Constitutional Rights another boost. Yesterday both the ACLU and the CCR filed lawsuits challenging the legality of the NSA surveillance program, the ACLU lawsuit in federal court in Michigan and the CCR lawsuit in federal court in New York.

Plaintiffs in the ACLU lawsuit include the ACLU and its Michigan affiliate, CAIR, Greenpeace, the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, Christopher Hitchens and others. Hitchens has issued a bizarre statement explaining his joinder in the lawsuit. He is appalled that "the entire existence of the NSA's monitoring was a secret, and its very disclosre denouned as a threat to national security." Actually, its disclosure has compromised national security, but that apparently counts for nothing when weighed against Hitchens's own need to protect his confidential journalistic sources, as alleged in the complaint (PDF). (Hitchens has not lost his marbles. In the New York Sun article on the lawsuit, Hitchens condemns CAIR as a "shady and disgusting organization.")

The complaint in the ACLU lawsuit is of interest for reasons beyond Hitchens's own hilarious contribution. The asserted interest of the ACLU, its Michigan affiliate and the individual board member plaintiffs of the ACLU Michigan affiliate appears to derive from their representation of terrorist detainees and their communication with others of a similar bent. ACLU Michigan board member Noel Salah, for example, complains that the NSA program has caused him to curtail his communications with "Palestinians under Israeli occupation" and inhibited his "efforts to promote peace and justice in this country."

The CCR lawsuit (PDF) represents the distilled essence of the absurdity on display here. CCR complains that the NSA surveillance program has compromised its representation of terrorist detainees and others. The CCR plaintiffs complain, for example, that their representation of terrorist clients has been inconvenienced by the NSA program in that the attorneys are now "compelled to undertake international travel to avoid the risk of jeopardizing the confidentiality of privileged communications." Among the individual plaintiffs in the CCR lawsuit is Rachel Meeropol, a CCR attorney better known as the granddaughter of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, both executed as Communist spies. Participation in the lawsuit is apparently her way of upholding the family honor.

Everyone knows the ACLU. CCR, however, is far less well known. David Horowitz provides background on CCR in his invaluable book Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left. CCR was founded in 1966 by William Kunstler, Arthur Kinoy and Morton Stavvis, attorneys who, according to Horowitz, were either members of the Communist Party or politically allied with the radical agendas of the new left. (Horowitz mentions in a footnote that he met with Kinoy in the early seventies; Kinoy handed him a 35-page manifesto written by Kinoy and Kunstler calling for the formation of a "new Communist Party.") One of its primary missions now is the representation of terrorist detainees at Guantanamo.

The ACLU and CCR lawsuits appear to be part of a closely coordinated legal attack on measures and means that have proved instrumental to the defense of the United States. The lawsuits also appear to represent the distilled essence of the merger between radical Islam and the radical left that has taken place in the conduct of hostilities against the United States. Reading the complaints in these lawsuits brought to my mind the jeremiad of the radical folk singer Phil Ochs: "...find yourself another country to be part of."



T.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Be careful Kahuna. I've been told, on this forum, that if you have any problem of any kind with anything the ACLU does, then you are an enemy of the Bill of Rights. You don't want to be thrown in with that kind of riff-raff do you? ;-)

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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You don't want to be thrown in with that kind of riff-raff do you? ;-)


Hey.....being thrown in with the riff-raff is the ultimate goal that I have for my life. And what Supreme Court justice once said that "the Constitution is not a suicide pact"? Prescient words for these parlous times, I daresay.

T.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you hate freedom?

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You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [Haondotri] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you think that the ACLU is standing up for freedom with this silly and ignorant lawsuit? Your statement is a total non-sequitur.

T.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Just for grins, let's assume that what the Administration did with the NSA warrantless wiretaps would be found to be illegal in a court of law. How would you propose the court get the case to make this determination?

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Just for grins, let's just say that the action is without merit and will be dismissed just because no prima facie case can be made. I know that you're saying that the question should be examined. I'm saying that the legal reasoning given by the ACLU and the CCR is a reach, and meritless.

T.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Just for grins, let's just say that the action is without merit and will be dismissed just because no prima facie case can be made. I know that you're saying that the question should be examined. I'm saying that the legal reasoning given by the ACLU and the CCR is a reach, and meritless.

T.


You dodged the question: how does this case get to court without a lawsuit? Who has standing, when the list of the aggrieved parties is classified?

Who checks the Executive Branch of government? The Legislative and the Judiciary Branches, IIRC. So we are left with impeachment and lawsuit.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Other than a cheap [i]ad hominem[/i] attack, what is this piece really saying?

1. The ACLU is using misrepresentations about Ashcroft in fundraising letters? Of course, the piece doesn't cite any actual misrepresentations.

2. Hitchens made a statement about the effects of the disclosure, with which the author disagrees? But there no further discussion about this -- only a conclusory statement.

3. Plaintiffs (and Counsel for plaintiffs) have also represented detainees and they feel that the attorney-client privilege may have been jeopardized by the surveillance? Apparently, this on its face is supposed to be a concern so absurd that the mere mention of it will convince all of the ACLU's nefarious motives.

4. One of the plaintiffs is a granddaughter of the Rosenbergs? Is this an excuse to use the "C" word?

5. David Horowitz writes, "blah, blah, blah, blah?" Another excuse to throw out the "C" word?

6. A conclusory statement that the ACLU is deliberately attemting to thwart the "war on terror?" Because we all know any other potential motive would be out of the question.

7. A claim that the lawsuit is evidence of a merger between radical Islam and the radical left? Because they have so much in common, this makes perfect sense.

And then there's the overall theme that the ACLU, because of its role in the lawsuit, is more of a threat than Al Qaeda. Because we all know that operating within the rule of law by trying to resolve disputes through the legal system rather than taking them into your own hands is the greatest threat to civilized society.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Who checks the Executive Branch of government? The Legislative and the Judiciary Branches, IIRC. So we are left with impeachment and lawsuit.


How about letting congressional oversight take a run at things first? Although NSA is part of the Executive Branch, Congressional oversight exists. That whole power of the purse thing could certainly be used to rein in an overly aggressive President.
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Re: Al-Qaeda Or The ACLU: Which Organization Is Deadlier To The U.S.? ;-) [Tri N OC] [ In reply to ]
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How about letting congressional oversight take a run at things first?

Pasing FISA wasn't enough?

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