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Re: Do atheists oppose [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone honestly think concerns had not been brought up during the decision making process on ID in the Dover Board of Ed? Are you kidding?

I believe that concerns were likely brought up by parents that were against ID and/or creationism (in the Dover situation) and against religion religion being taught in the classrom in any form (in this situation). We can all admit that it's an issue that very few don't have an opinion on, and a few have very emotional opinions about. Those concerns were likely ignored or argued out (in the Dover case). No, I'm not kidding.

Given the events that have taken place since ... a group/board willing to put forth a "religion course" disguised as a legit course, would be essentially, giving themselves a pink slip and effectively killing the chances of any such courses being introduced elsewhere in the future.

Perhaps I am too optomistic and give people the benefit of the doubt too often. But, IMO, you'd have to be an absolute dumbass, at this point, to try and teach a legit class with an understanding that the class is really about "studying the Bible". Seriously, a school board would be begging to be both fired and sued. In this era, the mention of "religion" or "Bible" or "ID/Creation" in school is the proverbial milliliter of blood in the ocean ... big sharks smell it a mile away.

As I mentioned before, I don't know many (if any) administrators that would even consider such a class. The tight rope that needs to be walked is tough. This was a major point of discussion in our School Law course, and (of course) my chapter for presenting was "Religion and Schools". Highly interesting to me. Very tedious. Very involved regarding the Establishment Clause.
Yet that's exactly what happened in Dover. They got both fired and successfully sued. Why do you think this is any different?

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Do atheists oppose [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Yet that's exactly what happened in Dover. They got both fired and successfully sued.

Are you directing sarcasm at me? You dare!

Why do you think this is any different?

Simple. One case involves the idea of ID (specifically, the reading of a statement declaring Evolution as simply a theory). The other case involves using the Bible directly as content. I think that's a HUGE (tm Tom Demerly) difference ... one that comes with greater scrutiny and consequence. I assume you would agree that the difference between the two situations is of significant magnitude (well, I put those two words together to sound smart ... I mean, it's "really big").

I think greater care and consideration likely went into this decision. Hey, I could be wrong ... there are certainly all types on school boards. People usually don't run for electoin on school boards b/c they want to be an objective voice; some run for SB b/c they're pissed at something and want to get it changed, others b/c they're interested parents of schoolage children. So, it is possible that this is a deliberate attempt to snakely get religion in the classroom, but until I know more I won't make that leap.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Do atheists oppose [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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You should take a look at the "Talking Points" column from the NYT last week - it covers in pretty good depth the specific issues with Dover, most specifically that ID was an independent intellectual theory, and not a dressed up version of creationism. Specifically, the litigation discovery process had unearthed previous drafts of the textbook, which had used the words "creation" and "creationism" instead of ID. And now what were those numbskulls saying about ID again?

http://select.nytimes.com/....html?pagewanted=all


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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
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Re: Do atheists oppose [trio_jeepy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think Ken reads the NY Times. ;)

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Do atheists oppose [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I guess I always thought of him as one of those Newsmax/Worldnetdaily type guys. jesus, just writing those names nauseates me.


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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
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Re: Do atheists oppose [trio_jeepy] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I know. When I hear Ken's name, my first image is "Weekly World News". I'm pretty sure Ken actually knows the Rhode Island State Trooper that shot Bigfoot ... and Ken may know the actual whereabouts of Batboy.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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