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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [Monk] [ In reply to ]
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"I know how a troll baits rather than discusses."

And besides the first post, what exactly have you offered by way of discussion in this thread? Goethe has at least offered his opinions in a considered manner. Guess maybe you should think a little more about who the troll is.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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And besides the first post, what exactly have you offered by way of discussion in this thread? Goethe has at least offered his opinions in a considered manner. Guess maybe you should think a little more about who the troll is.
I guess I'm the troll, Herr Matt :(
Last edited by: Monk: Jan 3, 06 16:47
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [gschiffer] [ In reply to ]
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" To be honest with you, I wish I could think like you, but I cant ! "
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This is interesting to me because I agree almost completely with JWcG. I wonder if this is a matter of prespective.

We get our information from personal experiences and from the media. What we have here is a European who (I would guess) reads predominately European news sources being told he is wrong about a European issue by people who live in the US and read (again I would guess) predominately US news sources.

As neither a European or a US citizen, but having lived for 7 years in UK, I understand exactly what JWcG is saying - religion in this case is coincidental but not necessary causal.
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [davet] [ In reply to ]
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I dunno.....just from my experiences of being in the M.E. off-and-on for a few years, and from having grown up right next door to the largest Arab (and Muslim) population in the U.S. (Dearborn, MI) and hearing the muezzin issue the call to prayer for the Faithful just about every part of the day, I just think that Islam is particular in its hold on its adherents. And that it informs just about every aspect of a Muslim's life....whether that be as a result of the inculcation of those beliefs from a person's immigrant parents or by the adherent's own choice, it certainly seems to have quite a dynamic hold on one's self.

I'm really beginning to think that the European continent, in an effort to boost its moribund population growth, has made a deal with the devil in order to get somebody, anybody, to pick up the "slack", so to speak, population-wise. It's incipient dhimmitude. That word derives from the Arabic dhimmis, which lays out the status of minority peoples who are under Islamic rule. Sometimes, it's not too bad...but sometimes it can be horrific, depending upon the branch of Islam under which the particular minority people live.



T.
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [davet] [ In reply to ]
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What we have here is a European


davet--I would be careful giving credibility to the opinions based on this "fact". He may in fact be European, but remember this is the Internet. Look at his profile, recently created, and his screen name and occupation--Google JW Von Goethe--probably 99% chance that they are phoney, unless there is a great coincidence. Perhaps the poor English, grammar, spelling lends credibility to your belief that he is European.

I am not saying to discount this poster's opinions for these reasons--or because he supposedly was just "moved" to begin posting after lurking all this time--just that they aren't necessarily entitled to greater weight.
Last edited by: Monk: Jan 4, 06 11:08
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [davet] [ In reply to ]
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I would say that I disgree with him rather than he is wrong. One thing I was thinking a lot lately is the fact that we preety much analyze processes that are happening and shaping itselfs right now. And normally you can't fully understand history in the makings. So who knows how will things ultimatley shape themselfs.

As big K. pointed I am also talking from experience with living next to arab muslims for long time. I visited eurpoe many times so I think I have fair understanding of some of the issues. In general, eurpoe, post WWII is different. There is a lot of Pacifism prevailed and along with certain social believes, I think the future is very uncertain for them. Primaruly becuase who the european are dealing with, rather then their own believes. I just think one must adjust itself to the reality in which he lives in.
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I dunno.....just from my experiences of being in the M.E. off-and-on for a few years, and from having grown up right next door to the largest Arab (and Muslim) population in the U.S. (Dearborn, MI) and hearing the muezzin issue the call to prayer for the Faithful just about every part of the day, I just think that Islam is particular in its hold on its adherents. And that it informs just about every aspect of a Muslim's life....whether that be as a result of the inculcation of those beliefs from a person's immigrant parents or by the adherent's own choice, it certainly seems to have quite a dynamic hold on one's self.

Compare this to Orthodox Jews, devout Hindus, Quakers, or just about any other "committed" religious group members. No difference.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [Monk] [ In reply to ]
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Indeed, I am not the real Goethe. It's a very good guess, unless Heaven (or Hell) has internet access.

I am indeed a European. Also, please remember before making comments about my English that some countries in

Europe do speak English.

As for my poor English, I'd suggest you look carefully at your post.



However, gschiffer makes an excellent point. Why are there problems only with Northern African immigrant? I do not

think this is the case. In the US, the same thing happened in Watts. Well, it was a lot worse. And there was no

religious reason behind it. At least, as far as I know. Correct me if I am wrong. Also keep in mind that there are nearly

50% of 'whites' among the rioters in France (very often the same that show up at soccer game to pick up fights).

In most countries, there has been problems with immigrants. I am not sure why. However, it seems that the Asian

population integrates a lot better than others. It's definitely a cultural thing. It's definitely not because they worship

Buddha or are Taoists.


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"We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe."
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [davet] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting comment about the news sources. Underlying the comment is the unspoken assumption that we don't trust the news sources to give us an accurate picture.

I haven't commented much about the French riots except mostly to note that the news coverage is terrible. We aren't getting the big picture.

It may be that the underlying issues are complicated and obscure. It may also be that they are simple but our news sources don't put the issues into perspective.

One thing the issue has made clear to me is that France as a country is never going to conduct any foreign policy that is in any way in visible opposition to Islamic terrorism for fear of domestic repercussions.
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [JW von Goethe] [ In reply to ]
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Indeed, I am not the real Goethe. It's a very good guess, unless Heaven (or Hell) has internet access.

I am indeed a European. Also, please remember before making comments about my English that some countries in

Europe do speak English.

As for my poor English, I'd suggest you look carefully at your post.
I have exchanged PM's with Herr Von Goethe, and he has acknowledged that he was acting in a pedantic and condescending manner, and is, in fact, a consummate ass. Thus, we have reached an accord, and all is well in Twitchville.
Last edited by: Monk: Jan 4, 06 13:31
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Compare this to Orthodox Jews, devout Hindus, Quakers, or just about any other "committed" religious group members. No difference.

Quakers, Ken? C'mon.......

Besides, show me in the respective versions of their religious writings where "slay the non-believer" is advocated.

You're doing the relativism thing, again.

T.
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Re: 400 Cars Torched in France; AP afraid to use the word "Muslim" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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[reply][b]Compare this to Orthodox Jews, devout Hindus, Quakers, or just about any other "committed" religious group members. No difference. [/b]

Quakers, Ken? C'mon.......

Besides, show me in the respective versions of their religious writings where "slay the non-believer" is advocated.

You're doing the relativism thing, again.

T.[/reply]

Learn to read, please. I was responding to your statement "just think that Islam is particular in its hold on its adherents. And that it informs just about every aspect of a Muslim's life" (the part that I bolded") with the observation that there are many religions, Quaker included, aside from Islam that inform every aspect of their adherent's life.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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