In your case i would worry about your saddle height first which too high, then the cockpit reach and yes, then shrug/drop your head between your shoulders. And angle your bars up and your extensions might be on the short side and to my liking the wrong shape.

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Elbows need to go 5-10cm longer. Seat needs to go 2-3cm lower. Extensions to short and probably flat. Do all those things and I'd bet the head is 50% there. Then just relax, like a drunk slouching at the bar.

There is no bend in your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke, so saddle is way too high.

There is a good video at ERO about Tim Odenell's position and what was done to lower his head. Basically adding some reach, but I am guessing your saddle needs to come back as well moving the arms forward. The nice thing is that once you get this fixed you will definitely be faster.

Are you coasting in that picture? Your right hand is not on the extension, so not possilbe to properly judge reach (though the obscured left arm angle looks much better), nor your actual head position, but I can't imagine that would be your foot position if your leg were that extended under power.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

This might be one of the best humble brags I’ve seen on here. Showing a pic of the IM world champ in Kona and put a pic of yourself riding in what appears to be Kona. Bravo!

And like a few others have said, seat is too high.

I’d echo what everyone else has said...

First, (unless you are coasting and for some reason that messed with your leg/foot position) your saddle is too high.

Second, extending the reach is a big way to get the head down without much effort. So... more reach and even angle the extensions up. Also... I’m not a big fan of straight or S bend extensions either.

The guys at TrainerRoad just did a huge podcast on aero testing. You should check that out. It’s called the “ask a cycling coach podcast.”

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-Nate
Triathlonpal.com
Flaer|Team Kiwami|Nuun Hydration|Honey Stinger
Twitter: @N8deck

Thanks to all of you for responding, I really appreciate that.

As to the reach, indeed the position on the photo in post #1 is not very typical, at least my right arm is retracted. So maybe the reach is ok anyway, I got two more pictures of that day; I'm sorry I do not have better pictures:



As to the saddle hight: I know it is still a couple (maybe 3 at least) cm too high, but I had once knee problems for which I put the saddle higher, and am reluctant to lower it. Last year I lowered it 1 cm (so it used to be even higher) and did not encounter any problems. Maybe I'll try this season to lower again 1 cm, which should be possible because I also have a spacer left under the stem.

As to the direction of the bars: horizontal feels very comfortable but I know for many people angled up is more aerodynamic.

And I heard once I should move more forward on the saddle but that's easily said: to change wrong habits is not so easy.

🤓

I tried another one here:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...in_Cave_P4146106-28/

, see post #690.
Sorry, just couldn't leave it...

It's certainly not a great position and I'd be going to someone who knows what they are doing rather than leave it to the Slowtwitch forum to critique.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Sometimes people take themselves too serious on here so I appreciate the posts like that which can give me a good laugh.

Nice film with TO, I did not understand every 100 % what Jim said in the film, but what I understand is that the angle of the extension bars were changed quite massively, such that his head came down without effort.

Anyway, I just lowered my saddle and cockpit with 1 cm, and angled up the extension bars a bit and did a testride, and it felt quite good and I was fast. (I also changed the front tire in conti 4000 S II from conti tt, because I heard that that is aerodynamically better.)
Before I really can say if all of these changes brought me some significant speed, I have to train a couple of times on my standard course so I can compare the data with that of last year.

Come in people... Can't you see this guy is coasting and reaching for the bottle of Gatorade which is why his elbow is like 15cm behind the pads? Horrible photo for any kind of position analysis.

Point those extensions up. You're not freakin Farris Al Sultan.

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What's your CdA?

That's true I noticed it myself as some others. In post #8 the arm position is better shown, although those pictures are also not perfect.



I've done that already, see post #12. Maybe the head comes down by this, isn't that what is said in the ERO film with TO?

Yes, I find that it does help relax the shoulders which allows you to drop your head lower. It also allows you to bring your pads closer together (you might need to increase reach a bit). You might want to consider switching extensions to ski bends which will naturally put your hands higher. I really love the Zipp Evo 110s.

To summarize:
- increase reach a bit
- higher hands to close that front gap
- switch to ski bends and bring extension tips together
- stack hands
- practice "the shrug" at least for short durations, they add up over time

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What's your CdA?

Yes strange one would not expect that, but hinging the underarms up around the ellbows tends to bring the shoulders and head downwards ( I tested this a bit today with my ellbows on my desk -> happy that my colleages didn't watch :-))

So I hinged my bars already upwards, changing them to skibends could be a little project for the summer (I will have to adapt the BTA holders and maybe need another stem).

Anyway, thanks for the advice and it underlines that I'm probably adjusting the right screws.